American Jedi Documentry

JLSpinner wrote: Hannigan I have never spoken to you before. I apologize for whatever transgressions you have endured here. I agree the attack on Opie was distasteful but this isn't much different. You are making many generalizations based on the actions of a few. Please handle this personally.

No directly and publicly works well.

Your anger is directed at hundreds of people for the actions of a few. How is that direct?

MJ Hannigan wrote: Ok this has been turning in my head for the last 24 hours so i am going to say it.

This may be offensive to some so read at your own risk.

People are talking so much trash wondering how Opie, Perris (Grandmaster WARBEAUTY of totjo), and Hannigan are going to make the community look. Are you people so unaware of what is really going on? The people featured were chosen with reason. The people of this film were part of the community long before many here even thought to join the band wagan jedi.

So if this film comes out great there is no vindication for us. Sure the community may get some great growth but yinz tossing us under a bus because you are worried about how you will look? Really? Can you get more selfish if you tried?

Do you understand how the featured people are telling the world who they are verses all of the people hiding here under sceen names and silly pictures. Opie has been promoting the community for years on youtube, i have done it through btr and we have put ourselves out there for the community. (Oh and lets not forget OPIE and I can not stand each other but at least we can agree that being public jedi is not as much fun as what people may think and we put our own livilhoods at risk for being as public as we are.

This poor me, what about us BS i am seeing here is beyond foolish. If this film goes poorly your little screen names and silly pictures will not be effected but how will Opie, Perris or hannigan be effected? Think about other people then your damn selves for a minute.

Having had a youtube channel myself for 2-3 years, granted only 70 subscribers or so and no where near reaching the same reach as you or opie have had, I still have a taste of what you are talking about in the above. I recently purged most of my old videos out to put up a new series where I'm a bit more consistent with the messages I want to put out there, as a lot of my earlier videos while good didn't really reflect in what I believe in now after going on for 2-3 years....2-3 years big whoop right?

Hannigan I liked the stuff that was in the trailer about you, I'm anxious to see it. I'm really really interested in Perris's story to see and understand how she has come along and grown from her experiences. It's not a secret that I have little respect for Opie, he has the two personality traits that I butt heads against with the most, what they are is irrelevant I have hard time dealing with anyone who has those types. Yes it was your choice to put yourselves out there, but the moment you chose to do it you also accepted the consequences, which again is not really a problem here. I have one principal in particular for me personally that sets me off and makes it hard for me not to be aggressive. That is if someone else performs an action with due disregard that affects another's life.

Opie was actually right(oh man I'm defending him) in that his story he has a right to tell. It's not so much that anyone other then those 3 should be judge or consider it until it's been fully told. HOWEVER, on the flip side, Opie depending on how the video came out, put himself in a very dangerous position. Because I've read elsewhere(and this for the moment is here-say, and I'm trying to reserve judgement I really am), that one of the other 3 people involved was not informed of this content being put out in a video in a wide broadcast manner. There is a difference here in the united states(for those reading in the UK or elsewhere) between telling your story to people who ask and want know, and telling your story across a public media such as a movie. If the way the movie comes out portrays one of 3 said people negative fashion, and especially if they were not informed, that hits two legal terms which is slander, and libel, google them up if your not familiar with them. IF at any part of this video the director has chosen cuts and snippets that portrays these other people in a negative fashion, they have legal right to come back and come after him. I hope this doesn't happen, I hope the video doesn't come out that way, but from what I've seen and read it is a real possibility. It's one thing to share your story it's another to put it on a billboard in downtown. Fifth amendment rights do not apply in cases of slander and libel with provable(being the keyword) intent.

Now on the whole whether we should be more focused on how it affects us vs you guys thing, I don't think anyone here should discredit the risk and liability you guys have put forth, if anything we should be very supportive and do our best to help....and .......as hard as it will be for me defend as best as we can. However, you can't discredit that anything you do under the same label we all share, does not effect everyone who uses the same label we all share. If someone goes and does something not so great under the name as Jedi, it does effect how all Jedi are portrayed to those who are still too ignorant of our existence or who we are in general because especially how the media itself has been lately. I was excited for this project because I thought it might really help to portray us in a better light where previous projects, didn't really do so, I mean who wouldn't? We all follow our paths and we as humans no matter what path or religion we take seek some form of validation or acceptance that we have and are doing the right thing and doing right by others, so when that gets threatened who won't get defensive? That's a natural human reaction as well.

Yes Opie's two trait's/attitudes of "I'm not capable of being wrong" and "doing/speaking before thinking" or at least how I see him based off his recent videos and actions are two things I have a really hard time being around. Now that I know a taste of his history and what he has come through and come out the other side, I can actually respect him a bit more, I would like to see more of his story from his perspective so I can better understand the guy and maybe it won't bother me as much, on the other hand here we are with this video and the potential for it to go way south. Even after my last little spat with him I actually had recorded a video response and typed up a big all essay to counter his defensive argument, and then listened to it, deleted it, re did it about 5 more times. Actually it helped me produce a new method of venting by watching myself go on a rant and then re-record it when I realized there were things that I was speaking out of passion not out of diplomacy so I can't say anything negative has come out of this experience as it has helped me deal with not going on rants like this one hardly as much, or at least without some taking the time to consider my response before making it.

So hannigan's response to this last paragraph will be here it all is about you again, yeah it's painful for me because I see this and it's a mix of oh crap what drama or scandal or who use whatever verb you like is going to come out of this that I'm going to have to endure(and yes some of us will have to endure the same stuff you three will because we all share the same label and we all try and be the best we can at that label), and the other is what are we going to do for opie, for jedi living, for force academy, for jedi realist radio, for totjo, for ...well I don't really respect the church of jedi at all but what do we not as sub groups of communities but as Jedi in general going to do to help defend our belief as a whole if this turns out south, because we should be out there for each other whether we like each other or not right?

Yes we need to reserve judgement for the actual movie but It would be nice to know before it came out. I do think that the people involved should receive a copy or a pre-screening, in case something does need changed or clarified or someone is slandered all over the face of the internet. Opie himself said he has not even seen it and has no idea what or how his story will be presented, If it we're me, I would want to know, and see it before anything I said was put out there edited by someone else, I wouldn't give permission for it's release until after I saw the post edit version. That's a personal choice on that matter. We COULD be patient and lazy and wait till it blows up or comes out great, or we could ask that the people involved in the video screen it and just make sure everything is going to be fine by acting before things get worse which is a principal Opie believes in according to his videos. Which is the Jedi thing to do?

Tellahane wrote: Yes we need to reserve judgement for the actual movie but It would be nice to know before it came out. I do think that the people involved should receive a copy or a pre-screening, in case something does need changed or clarified or someone is slandered all over the face of the internet. Opie himself said he has not even seen it and has no idea what or how his story will be presented, If it we're me, I would want to know, and see it before anything I said was put out there edited by someone else, I wouldn't give permission for it's release until after I saw the post edit version. That's a personal choice on that matter. We COULD be patient and lazy and wait till it blows up or comes out great, or we could ask that the people involved in the video screen it and just make sure everything is going to be fine by acting before things get worse which is a principal Opie believes in according to his videos. Which is the Jedi thing to do?

I submit that the Jedi thing to do might be to put aside fear and have a little faith.

To be more specific: Given what I know about Laurent, he is a professional, and therefore knows well that you get your subjects to sign releases up front before you shoot a second of footage. No one gets to dictate how they are perceived in any event, but a documentarian who allows his subjects to control the narrative is not a documentarian but a propagandist. Same thing happens in any media interaction, whether it's a wide-release documentary, an interview on local TV, or sitting down with an aspiring Lois Lane from the middle school student newspaper. You say your piece, you answer questions, and then you hope that you are treated fairly. It is my hope that everyone in this film is treated fairly in the finished piece. But I'm not gonna stress about whether it will be so.

Hannigan, you'll be happy to hear we have a UK gathering going on right now. I can't remember how many we've had over the years so somebody throw me a bone. Need the info.

I've always encouraged physical groups. Especially when the we need a grand physical temple talk comes up. I say, if you can't find five people who live close to you to get together once a month, why are you worried about a building?

But due to not being near a physical group, online is all what many people have available. It's beats the hell out of having no connection at all.

Speaking for myself, not for The Council or Sweet Baby Jesus, I'm anxious to see the film and have no worries about how good, bad or otherwise it may be. I hope it's good for the sake of those involved. They deserve it to be good.

P.T. Barnum was right when he said, [the vast majority of the time] "There is no such thing as bad publicity. There's just publicity."

JLSpinner wrote: Your anger is directed at hundreds of people for the actions of a few. How is that direct?

LMAO you thought i was angry? No i am just very direct in how i speak with others. i do not pass out puppys and bubbles or have special carpet in safe spaces.

Personally i get how people are on the ropes of how this came out, but at the same time they should be excited for the attempt to let main stream know about the Jedi Realist Community.

The people who are seen in this movie took a bigger risk by telling their stories then when people realize and I for one have already recieved some harsh words over this film by people not in the community. It is cool i work out and my shoulders can and will deal with that weight for the community i have been apart of for close to 20 years. Be thankful that this door was opened and perhaps if it goes well this will set in motion other related films.

Atticus wrote: I submit that the Jedi thing to do might be to put aside fear and have a little faith.

To be more specific: Given what I know about Laurent, he is a professional, and therefore knows well that you get your subjects to sign releases up front before you shoot a second of footage. No one gets to dictate how they are perceived in any event, but a documentarian who allows his subjects to control the narrative is not a documentarian but a propagandist. Same thing happens in any media interaction, whether it's a wide-release documentary, an interview on local TV, or sitting down with an aspiring Lois Lane from the middle school student newspaper. You say your piece, you answer questions, and then you hope that you are treated fairly. It is my hope that everyone in this film is treated fairly in the finished piece. But I'm not gonna stress about whether it will be so.

So are you saying, just so I understand your stance, that your view is to not to potentially intervene to defend another Jedi based on limited information or seek to further acquire more accurate information, but rather wait to see if nothing will happen first?

I understand and acknowledge the hard work and dedication of those involved and I for one am excited to see the film. I have much respect for Opie and what I have seen at Jedi Living. However the manner in which you approached today had the same lack of respect and empathy that you publicly called us out for. We are all brothers and sisters of the Force.

Now can we talk about the movie?

Tellahane wrote:

Atticus wrote: I submit that the Jedi thing to do might be to put aside fear and have a little faith.

To be more specific: Given what I know about Laurent, he is a professional, and therefore knows well that you get your subjects to sign releases up front before you shoot a second of footage. No one gets to dictate how they are perceived in any event, but a documentarian who allows his subjects to control the narrative is not a documentarian but a propagandist. Same thing happens in any media interaction, whether it's a wide-release documentary, an interview on local TV, or sitting down with an aspiring Lois Lane from the middle school student newspaper. You say your piece, you answer questions, and then you hope that you are treated fairly. It is my hope that everyone in this film is treated fairly in the finished piece. But I'm not gonna stress about whether it will be so.

So are you saying, just so I understand your stance, that your view is to not to potentially intervene to defend another Jedi based on limited information or seek to further acquire more accurate information, but rather wait to see if nothing will happen first?

I could object to your characterization, but if you want to oversimplify it so, then yes.

"Wait to see" is accurate enough because while we are aware of the potential impacts of future actions, we live in and focus on the Now. Events will always come, circumstances will always change. Our job is not to exert control over outcomes but to flow through whatever may come.

"Further acquire more accurate information" happens when we watch the film and make our own evaluations based on the finished product, not a trailer.

"Intervene to defend another Jedi" is the non-starter for me. First of all, who decided that any Jedi involved here needs defending? What intervention is needed? much less desirable? much less even possible?

Everyone who will appear on that screen did so voluntarily, and most if not all of them probably signed a binding contract for the unrestricted use of any images or words that may have been captured. What has been filmed are moments of people who knowingly put themselves out there to be captured in those moments. As I said, I hope they are treated fairly: that, for example, there has been no deceptive editing that paints them in a false light. If Laurent's docu does that, the persons affected may have recourse. Barring that, they simply don't.

Tellahane wrote:

Atticus wrote: I submit that the Jedi thing to do might be to put aside fear and have a little faith.

To be more specific: Given what I know about Laurent, he is a professional, and therefore knows well that you get your subjects to sign releases up front before you shoot a second of footage. No one gets to dictate how they are perceived in any event, but a documentarian who allows his subjects to control the narrative is not a documentarian but a propagandist. Same thing happens in any media interaction, whether it's a wide-release documentary, an interview on local TV, or sitting down with an aspiring Lois Lane from the middle school student newspaper. You say your piece, you answer questions, and then you hope that you are treated fairly. It is my hope that everyone in this film is treated fairly in the finished piece. But I'm not gonna stress about whether it will be so.

So are you saying, just so I understand your stance, that your view is to not to potentially intervene to defend another Jedi based on limited information or seek to further acquire more accurate information, but rather wait to see if nothing will happen first?

I think Atticus is saying that there is no 'proper intervention' necessary, nor is it even likely to be effective. Documentaries wouldn't exist if the subjects controlled the narrative. Having experience in both documentary and tv production, I can tell you that the producer and editor have the power to decide what the tone will be, not the subjects of the production. Do you actually believe McDonalds agreed with the depiction in 'Supersize Me' or the subjects in 'Bowling For Columbine' got to see it before it came out in order to edit it? If you don't want to potentially look bad, don't volunteer to be filmed. It's that simple. The same will be said for our responses as Jedi. Beware of what you say or do in defense of this film or in protest of it because your words can be turned on you too whether you give your consent or not. That's how Freedom of the Press works. Passion, yet Serenity.