The search continues....

When we see a wonderful monument and we say, “Isn’t that pretty?” or something of the sort. For most of my life I have seen things that cause awe and amazement. And in my attempts to explain them I have looked closer and closer. Defining the composition and then breaking that down further to try and explain or find the answers to the questions I was asking. Then, on 11-21-12 while reading the journal of one of our new members I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity. It’s not that I realized or saw an answer but rather I saw exactly what I was doing wrong. It is easy to pick apart all the inner workings of each individual function while in a forest, but to see what it is you’re looking at you have to back up till you can actually see the forest!

Aristotle told us plants have souls, but cannot feel. The early 20th-century botanist Raoul France of Vienna told us plants move as freely and as gracefully as a prima ballerina, but that we don't see it because of the speed of their dance (the interplay of time). Joseph Campbell in conversation with Bill Moyer's on the PBS special The Power of Myth described the graceful dance of a flowering vine as it wound its way up a column on his porch in Hawaii. As the plant produced its flowering bud it turned to meet the sun. Campbell went on to say that if that movement toward the sun isn't conscious behavior than he did not know what was. The dogma of science claims the plant’s turning to the sun is a simple genetic matter of heliotropism. This is another example of our limited definition of consciousness and our egocentric view toward it. Several hundred years of looking through a straw at the parts of nature and thereby ignoring the whole dance has convinced us that we are the only possessors of consciousness. The problem lies in our tiny definition of the word.

Trapped in our own anthropocentric and dogmatic view of the world we have become insensitive to aspects of the outer world that plants respond to so exquisitely. One need only consider what our current worldview has wrought on our environment to begin a change to a new paradigm where consciousness is universal and cooperation replaces competition.

Cleve Backster argued that plants perceived human intentions, and as Backster began to investigate further, he also reported a finding that other human thoughts and emotions caused reactions in plants that could be recorded by a polygraph instrument. His work was in part inspired by the research of Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose, who claimed to have discovered that playing certain kinds of music in the area where plants grew caused them to grow faster.

Backster's claims were refuted by Horowitz, Lewis, and Gasteiger (1975) and Kmetz (1977). Kmetz summarized the case against Backster in an article for the Skeptical Inquirer in 1978. Backster had not used proper controls in doing his study. When controls were used, no detection of plant reaction to thoughts or threats could be found. These researchers found that the cause of the polygraph contours could have been due to a number of factors, including static electricity, movement in the room, changes in humidity, etc.

As of yet, I have found no conclusive data from continued tests which prove Backster’s claim. I feel as if they were looking for the wrong thing.

Which brings me to where this is all going. We live in a harmonic universe, built upon a unified, unseen foundation of conscious, energy, known as "zero point energy" or "aether." Up until the 20th century, most Western scientific tradition proposed that such an energy force existed, going back to at least the time of the ancient Greek philosophers, and most likely to a far older civilization. The existence of this aether was supposedly proven to be false by the Michaelson-Morley experiment (M-M) at the beginning of the 20th century, and most scientists still believe that it is correct.
Like fishes in the sea, the pressure of this energetic “fluid” constantly surrounds us, though we do not normally notice its presence. In this wealth of new data, the aether is a source of tremendous energy that is in constant vibrational motion, flowing through all objects in the Universe, creating and recreating them every second... just as a candle flame is constantly absorbing new wax and oxygen and radiating new heat and light, but still continues to exist as a measurable "unit." Should this aether ever stop flowing and swirling about with such an intelligent, purposeful behavior, all mass would shed heat, gradually "dissolve" and return to its primordial energy state; the "flame" would go out.

"Physics of the 21st century” tell us that the very building blocks of mass, the atoms and molecules themselves, are not particles at all. Instead, they are ultimately nothing more than spherical whirlpools of energy. I am not the first to propose that the aether itself can provide a tangible, scientific way to define, explain and even engineer the how it all works.

I would like to explore the possibilities of this and work together with others in finding a way to identify, test and document the theoretical.

This sounds extremely interesting. What would you suggest for further reading so that I may understand more fully this aether or zero point energy?

Well, I'm not quite sure what you really want to do but...

is that the same Aether that they used to believe light is made from it? If so, I know a couple of people who made some experiment in which they proved there is no such a thing...

please correct my statement if it's wrong (and well, there is a little chance it be correct, 1:06 AM ... )

Very interesting stuff, this conversation i believe will lead to the type of topics worth discussing- especially if we are taking this as a scientific basis to try to understand better the universe around us.

So here is a video that might extend this conversation, i found it very interesting and was immediately reminded of this guys discovery's after reading Wescli's moment of clarity

Link may not work for everyone- http://vimeo.com/38288818

I have to admit I'm a bit more interested in the whole idea of plant consciousness. I've often wondered where the line is drawn between conscious and unconscious living things, and now I'm beginning to see there may not be a line at all.

It's a perfect example at how relative time really is. For a plant, a day may go by in what would seem to us a minute or two, in which it grows a bit more and quickly angles itself toward the sun. I suppose we may never know just how aware they are.

As for the polygraph tests, I'm a big fan of Mythbusters, and that was one of the myths they tested and busted. It seemed that there was only ever a response from the plant when a tester was in the room with the plant, thus affecting the environment. Remove the person, and all effects go away.

Still, this is fascinating stuff.

I can appericaiate the beauty of that which has no conscience (and that which is illegal too )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPzCCZfl5uw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im-H3TvM3fU

:huh:

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/General-Discussions/66052-From-a-corner-of-the-library-#66153

Phortis Nespin, that is a good question. Seeing how many in the scientific community have dismissed much of this work as being a sham, what would one consider to be a “good” book? There are several books on it though but I would not read just one (as with anything). Here is a list of three of them: The Energy Machine of T. Henry Moray: Zero-Point Energy & Pulsed Plasma Physics, Practical Conversion of Zero-Point Energy, 3rd Edition: Feasibility Study of the Extraction of Zero-Point Energy from the Quantum Vacuum for the Performance of Useful Work, Tapping the Zero Point Energy: Free Energy in Today's Physics.

Also I am including this video because the gentlemen ties how the aether could work to resolve several unexplainable issues with current working models.



I am also interested in the “consciousness” of plants. And I was taught that plants do have a soul. Example: When we harvested saplings for our sweat lodges we would ask the tree if it was willing to give its life for that purpose. Sometimes it would take me longer to collect the wood then it would take to erect the lodge.

When I read the journal entry it dawned on me that I was looking closer and closer, smaller and smaller for an answer but didn’t know what the answer was I was looking for. What I mean is, how can I identify what I don’t know what I’m looking for? There are several things in science and math that do not follow the norm or break rules. Why? And if there is an aether, what would it look like, or how would we identify it? And this is what the plant consciousness idea leads me too. They were measuring plant responses with tools designed for animal responses. All living things have some kind of energy usage and creation. And it is NOT all electrical. So how do we measure it? Is it a wave pattern that could be read on an oscilloscope? And that lead me to the next line of thought. Since the oscilloscope exists… it would have the same energy running through it. So, in living things the variance in energy outputs or wave patterns could be identified and if shared by all living thing would help to isolate the energy witch would represent the aether.

And this idea could intermingle in several fields and applies to all (depending on its validity) but the first task would be to identify that it does exists somehow.

Of course, I am open to ideas! (And ridicule as I’m sure many of you are laughing and pointing at the screen!) hahhahahhahahhha

I'm not trying to get off the subject here, but just to present a similar theory with difficult measuring capabilities.

I saw a documentary on dark matter. The scientist have to go deep underground in an old mine with a frozen disk of who knows what. The dark matter penetrates all things and when it hits the disk of whatever in a certain way, it measures temperature differentials in order to prove the existence of dark matter.

Plants move toward light so I would think that it must be some form of light wave measurement you are looking for?? When light hits the earths atmosphere, does it produce a sound of some sort that moves in the same direction as the light wave, or is it another form of matter produced by the sun just as the light waves but as a separate entity? Something we have yet to discover?

I should say..that you will discover for your Nobel prize.

I'm not trying to get off the subject here, but just to present a similar theory with difficult measuring capabilities.

I saw a documentary on dark matter. The scientist have to go deep underground in an old mine with a frozen disk of who knows what. The dark matter penetrates all things and when it hits the disk of whatever in a certain way, it measures temperature differentials in order to prove the existence of dark matter.

Plants move toward light so I would think that it must be some form of light wave measurement you are looking for?? When light hits the earths atmosphere, does it produce a sound of some sort that moves in the same direction as the light wave, or is it another form of matter produced by the sun just as the light waves but as a separate entity? Something we have yet to discover?

I should say..that you will discover for your Nobel prize.

Not being a scientist, this thread is over my head. :laugh: