The State of the World

Warning: Some people may take some offense to my following opinion; none is meant

I have to agree with Senan (although I may be taking his point out of his context here)

Our aim to 'save the planet' is ultimately a selfish one (not selfish to one person, but to the species as a whole), as the earth is perfectly capable of surviving without us. Even if we were to kill off all life on earth, I don't suppose the planet would much care. Either life would begin again, or not, but it really wouldn't matter in the scheme of things.

In my honest opinion (I don't expect people to agree, just to consider it), the desire to save the planet and all the little furry animals is a totally selfish ideology, and we need to recognize it as such. We're not trying to save the trees or the bunny rabbits, we only want to save ourselves.

Fenton wrote: Warning: Some people may take some offense to my following opinion; none is meant

I have to agree with Senan (although I may be taking his point out of his context here)

Our aim to 'save the planet' is ultimately a selfish one (not selfish to one person, but to the species as a whole), as the earth is perfectly capable of surviving without us. Even if we were to kill off all life on earth, I don't suppose the planet would much care. Either life would begin again, or not, but it really wouldn't matter in the scheme of things.

In my honest opinion (I don't expect people to agree, just to consider it), the desire to save the planet and all the little furry animals is a totally selfish ideology, and we need to recognize it as such. We're not trying to save the trees or the bunny rabbits, we only want to save ourselves.

i agree with this
for clarity's sake, any time i ever talk about saving the world what i mean is saving or bettering the human world. i also mean to do this in a way that respects the natural.systems of the earth.
i also mean to do something that has clearly "beneficial" effects with as little harmful consequences as possible

also i think that most of what people get offended about is stupid.
there is no good reason to ever feel offended or to take anything personal ever
but thats a different topic

you change the world simply by being in it, whether you know it or like it or choose it or not, there really is no choice about it (short of lifelong isolation)
therefor it is your resposibility to be deliberate and thoughtfully choose how you will change it, and to what extent

OB1Shinobi wrote: but i would like to challenge you to make up your mind right now that you yourself are going to make a great difference in your lifetime

I have always lived by the saying that "you should be the change you want to see in the world".
Frankly, I am amazed and intrigued by the different points put forward so far.

Fenton wrote: In my honest opinion (I don't expect people to agree, just to consider it), the desire to save the planet and all the little furry animals is a totally selfish ideology, and we need to recognize it as such. We're not trying to save the trees or the bunny rabbits, we only want to save ourselves.

I understand what you are saying. We are part of the nature of the world and we have been for a good amount of time ( rather tiny if put into perspective, but still a decent amount of time ). The world does not need saving, my post is not about saving the world, or the trees, or the bunny rabbits. Rather my argument is how we interact with the world of nature at the current moment could be improved. I believe their is a way to co-exist in this world with everything else without cultivating an entire species for food.

RosalynJ wrote: If we want to live in harmony with nature (the one that you suggest) we would have to give up modern conveniences such as the internet, central heat, running water etc.

RosalynJ wrote: Our current "nature" is concrete buildings, paved roads, and sorry to say, cultivated food. Given the current set of circumstances, what can we do?

The grander problem of the collective misuse of resources, the collective unbalance with nature that we see may certainly not be solved by one or even a group of Jedi, but the starving person in your neighborhood, maybe they need some help. The poor and downtrodden of the city that you live in may need some support.

Yes, we have a long way to go to right the world, but there are a lot of things that we CAN do, ourselves to make our own mark and improve its state.

What do you think?

As I have mentioned above, I have lived by trying to be the change I want to see in the world. We wouldn't absolutely need to give up our modern appliances to live in such a way. With newer technology now, electricity can be generated by wind power, power of the waves an even by light.
My ideal scenario? A scenario in which people use such technologies to rid societies dependency on mass production of electricity and of food. If everyone had a system in place ( which, I know, is sounding a bit far fetched at the moment ) that could generate them their own electricity - modern appliances would not need to be dropped. This argument of devolving in order to harmonize with nature is not what needs to happen.
The next stage of social evolution, I think, lies in everybody having a self sustainable life style that is not centered on consumerism. Sure, some consumerism and trading would exist but not to the scale that it is today. This would mean growing our own food, fishing for our own food and perhaps keeping a few chickens etc. for food.

I think that back in history, we were too dependent on "hunter/gather" style living. Nowadays, we have advanced to the other extreme of being too dependent on "consumerism". I think we need to find a balance somewhere in the middle.
But that is just me.

i want to add this

i think the internet itself represents a technological model of a natural system

specifically i would highlight wikipedia
what is wikipedia except a techno version of an intelligent conversation? the most informed or knowledgeable on any given topic are in open dialogue while the un or newly initiated merely try to learn from those who already have the information

its a compmetely technological evolution of natural human interaction

fenton:
i also would like to add specifically in regards to the point you bring up,

speaking for myself, i am a conservationalst. i do not consider it my place to protect the fish from the inherent dangers of the river
or to protect the river from the hunger of the ocean
when you speak of the selfishness of conservation i have to say that the greater selfsihness is to continue on a path which so inarguably destroys and pullutes the entire natural system

this path is firmly based in the INCORRECT assumption that we are somehow removed or seperate from that system

our bodies are made of water and air and earth and electricity and star dust

this is mystical truth
and it is scientific fact

we are a natural expression of a natural universe
it is not that we affect the world around us in a way that is un natural
it is that we do it in a way which is immature and selfish

which is what i mean about when i talk about damaging the environment and trying to seperate ourselves from the natural system

the challenge is to stay integrated with the world and not allow technological progress hypnotize us into thinking we are superior to the water and the earth and the air which we literally can not live without

Well when you think about our past it's utterly amazing we've even made it this far. Two world wars plus all the wars and things that have happened since before we had a good way to document history (which I know, is written by the victors). The salem witch trials, the crusades, the dark ages, slavery, every war ever, etc, need I go on.

It's just the same shit on a different day tbh. There's always been corruption, and I'd be willing to bet there always will be, like was said it's just a part of the human condition. But where some think things are getting worse I believe things are getting better. It's difficult but trying to look at the world beyond your lifetime can be eye-opening and put things in perspective. Ever thing how cool it would be to live in the old west? Don't movies make it seem awesome? No! The west was a god-awful place to be, or how about even living in a world without the internet, phones, cars, running water?! We have it the best compared to anyone living ever.

But beyond that, the evil that still exists, we've forced it into the darkenss, into hiding. If a king didn't like what you had to say, he could just straight up kill you and get away with it. A group of people don't like a woman? Now you have to accuse them of being a witch. But what now? How easy is it to get away with killing someone? I guess you could try to plant evidence but still, it'd be extremely difficult. Corruption? Forced to hide beyond politicians nobody trusts, unable to push their agenda's with all the red tape that's been put up.

TL:DR Things are amazing now, there will always be problems, no matter what. We aren't living in utopia because we've spent the last 2,000 years fighting the truly darkest of evils (murder, theft, slavery) while the only prevalent evil are politicians and groups trying to push an agenda through a mile of red tape.

I like when you're going yeah this world is in some turmoil,but these things are happening for a reason.government fighting for land and natural resources,labels this group bad and that group good. All you really can do is put your two cents out there.