Rants far and wide

Ranting and pointing his finger
At everything but his heart

You took a stand on every little thing
And so loud

About time one of you spoke up.....

It amazing how many turn coats and true colors emerge when there is a proverbial rallying flag to stand/hide behind...

Arisaig wrote:

[W]hy do we tolerate derailing of threads in a 'discussion demanding proof' when it is something that is personally experienced, and only by those that desire to open their minds enough to experience it? ...
Why continue to tolerate a view simply because its interesting if it discourages learning and faith in a school/church?

Hi Arisaig. This is intended as a mild defense of an occasional skeptical perspective, especially when it is solicited and offered in a way that explicitly indicates the view expressed is based on personal experience or reflection, and not offered as an unquestionable truth.

I participated in that recent conversation on psychometry, and expressed the view - based on my own experience - that it either wasn't likely to be a gift anyone had, or else required so much time to cultivate that it isn't practical for most people. That particular thread began with a request for personal perspectives on psychometry, so the response seemed to me to be in line.

I think in a situation like this, such a response is justified. However, it was certainly not my intention to discredit anyone else's contrary perspective. Like you, I too have had experience with paranormal events that I cannot prove to anyone - ones I generally don't discuss with people because I expect to be confronted with disbelief. I know those things happen.

I've also experienced, though, claims related to the paranormal that turn out to be overhyped distortions that some people latch onto and hence are led astray. It's important, I think, for those of us who acknowledge a reality that science has not, at least yet, validated, to back each other up so we are not so easily led astray ourselves. That was my intent, at least.

Long story short - if I was one of those whom you felt were suppressive of open-mindedness and the consideration of metaphysical realities, I apologize for conveying that impression. I did not wish to deliver such a message.

Omhu Cuspor wrote:

Arisaig wrote:

[W]hy do we tolerate derailing of threads in a 'discussion demanding proof' when it is something that is personally experienced, and only by those that desire to open their minds enough to experience it? ...
Why continue to tolerate a view simply because its interesting if it discourages learning and faith in a school/church?

Hi Arisaig. This is intended as a mild defense of an occasional skeptical perspective, especially when it is solicited and offered in a way that explicitly indicates the view expressed is based on personal experience or reflection, and not offered as an unquestionable truth.

I participated in that recent conversation on psychometry, and expressed the view - based on my own experience - that it either wasn't likely to be a gift anyone had, or else required so much time to cultivate that it isn't practical for most people. That particular thread began with a request for personal perspectives on psychometry, so the response seemed to me to be in line.

I think in a situation like this, such a response is justified. However, it was certainly not my intention to discredit anyone else's contrary perspective. Like you, I too have had experience with paranormal events that I cannot prove to anyone - ones I generally don't discuss with people because I expect to be confronted with disbelief. I know those things happen.

I've also experienced, though, claims related to the paranormal that turn out to be overhyped distortions that some people latch onto and hence are led astray. It's important, I think, for those of us who acknowledge a reality that science has not, at least yet, validated, to back each other up so we are not so easily led astray ourselves. That was my intent, at least.

Long story short - if I was one of those whom you felt were suppressive of open-mindedness and the consideration of metaphysical realities, I apologize for conveying that impression. I did not wish to deliver such a message.

As a reminder to the rules of the rants thread, rants are not to be replied to directly please, this is a venting thread, discussions go elsewhere, thank you.

It took me so long to learn how to like people in spite of the fact that i disagree with them.

Is it really that hard for people to be honest.... Really?! Third flippin time this week.
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And while we're at it, is it really that hard for you to do your job properly so the dishonest people stop getting away with it?

You cannot simply dismiss any criticism as “that’s who I am, don’t try to change me”, and then bitch about other people not meeting your standards.

Disclaimer: To avoid misunderstanding, this is not about any situation I know of at TotJO. To repeat, this is not about TotJO.
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Begin Rant
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Lets think about this like Jedi....

An individual brings activity, promotional value, members, and content. This same individual since they entered the community (actually, not their made-up date) all the way to 2019 (yep, this year in which we aren't even out of the first month yet) has been lying about some important information. They have lied about their military service. They have lied about their credentials (credentials which have earned them ranks without training). And most of all they have lied about their past.

As Jedi a person's past doesn't define them. We are capable of growing beyond our mistakes. This concept of Redemption is central to the Star Wars mythos. And being a two count sex offender and felon can be a tough thing to live down, so a lie of omission isn't surprising. However, when confronted about their false military past and their criminal record they continued to lie and deny. And continued to benefit from these lies. Continued to be given authority. They brought a gun to a gathering (not only against policy, but this individual specifically has a criminal charge of felon in possession of a firearm) which was shrugged off because of said false credentials. When their "training master" (aka person to put them up for knighthood at the next gathering) was told of these grievances and given the black and white facts this "master" was given more lies and denial. And so the "training master" swept the information under the rug. And the individual continued to benefit - which will most likely be rewarded with a knighthood this summer or next (regardless of this information now being public).

This is simply dishonest and fails as a Jedi on multiple levels regardless of the Jedi Document you use. Case and point this fails some core aspects of the Jedi Compass (we'll use this because the overseeing group has hitched their wagon to this document).
Self-Awareness Interior and Exterior both can be seen as a failure.
Integrity and Responsibility are absolutely clear failures. Though a case can be made for failures in Fortitude, Objectivity, and Discipline.
A case can be made for Attachment and Recklessness (why hold onto a lie when confronted with the black and white records?).
However the second most obvious Failure here is Aggression. Because when information was discovered and brought forth the individual went on the attack. Became aggressive and sought to tear down the individuals who held this knowledge. And this aggression became overly clear when a person posted about it publicly as soon as they learned about it.

So if we tackle this with a document of my own - the Jedi Method - We need to establish Jedi Intent + Jedi Action to hopefully come to a Jedi Outcome. Jedi Intent would be to seek the validity of the claims to ensure fairness and proper action. Upholding the Jedi ideal of Justice. Also there should be an intent of addressing the major failings of honesty, accountability, integrity, and so forth. Jedi Intent being diplomacy, safety, accountability, and due diligence.
Once that has been done Jedi Action can take place - personally I'd go for a removal of all titles and dismissal from the group with a public statement of apology for endangering your community. Jedi Action being in line with Defense, Security, and Protection of the overall Jedi Community and sending a clear message of Jedi Accountability. More to the point, what will be tolerated (jedi compass) and what will not.
The outcome would hopefully be the person feels the ramifications of their poor choices and seeks to better themselves and earn back all the trust they have broken by playing politics and not once acting as a Jedi in this matter. Eventually (years later) earning the chance to go for knighthood which this incident should be heavily weighed. Becoming an actual Jedi through the fire of this tribulation.

But that isn't what you are doing is it? No. Instead you have chosen to back and defend this individual. To go after the person who has used this information publicly. To question their "knighthood" despite defending it for four years. A person which you knight and have been confronted with time and time again for the past four years for poor behavior - but always you defended and even watched as good Jedi left your group because of your defense of this individual. You continually chose this one "knight" over decent Jedi. But now is the time you draw the line? Now is the time you say no more? When they out a sex offender who has, even in 2019, lied about their past and military service - you chose to double-down on that person instead of the "knight" you have allowed to cost you several key members? How does that make sense? Do you not understand this isn't a either-or scenario? That you can finally (for some reason) take action against a knight who you have encouraged (and built a culture around) AND you can remove the person who has been lying to you and the community this entire time? You can do both, promise, but you aren't are you?

Your continued poor judgment and horrendous leadership is a clear example of why I left your group. Why I don't recommend your group. And why I cringe anytime a new and young Jedi happily says they are hoping to join it. Yes - you need to deal with the "knight" you have allowed to run rampant, but can you blame them? That is the culture you have allowed. You have time after time apologized for them and allowed them to continue to act in this very manner. You encouraged this behavior by not holding your own "knights" accountable. But now that they have turned their attention to one of your precious members (with valid reason) you want to bounce them? And at the same time do absolutely NOTHING about this person who has clearly played you all for fools? Even reward them in a few months? Add them to your ranks? Really?

All you care about is your group growing. You don't care how. You don't care that your members aren't Jedi and you certainly don't care when they act counter to the Jedi Way publicly and privately. Your only concern is - what can they do to help make your group grow. And if it seems like they can't, you'll happily kick them with minimal provocation. But when they sing your praises from the rooftops - well I guess they can do whatever they want - except go after another member who is more valuable to the group.
Politics. Bureaucracy. After over two decades have we really not grown beyond that?
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End Rant
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Emotion clouding judgement.



There. I said it.

Jedi History. I find it an interesting topic. Sure I find historical stories interesting in general, but if I knew nothing of the world but merely the Jedi Community I'd know one core fact - those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. "Learn From", not learn of, not acknowledge, not gossip about. There are cycles that happen. This can be expected with a continual influx of new people to a community, especially a community with a common theme and inspiration. Certain core elements just speak to people. All well and good - can be very fun to explore old topics with fresh eyes and see if any new angles provide new ways forward.

Of course running a Jedi group has some pretty interesting history tied to it as well. Our community at its youngest is twenty years old. We can go to 24 if want, some try to push further, but community-wise that is about where it tops out. We are still in those college party years. But plenty of examples of running a Jedi group exist. Many groups grew very active. Many great and large groups which have crumbled under their own weight. Many groups which have toppled under drama and politics. Some under stagnation. Others just from no activity. Avoiding these issues isn't as difficult as our history may make it seem - just about learning from our history.

Example. In 1999 I was given a council position and a Master title. Fortunately the Force (or my internet provider dropping service in my area) and my own low self-esteem allowed me to run away from that. Still it kicked started me on a journey through the community that would add many titles and positions - some just as ridiculous and superfluous as the first two. I watched as that original group ate itself over and over again - sure the website survived for years, but not the leadership, not the direction, all eventually withered away under the constant toxicity; a mask worn to keep pretending it is its old self. I got to witness many other sites rise and fall. Fascinating stuff. Human Nature vs Jedi Nature, the scoreboard is not encouraging.

So when an idealistic young man approached me with an idea he was working on, I was humbled. It is nice when someone acknowledges that time served. He wanted to form a new group and asked my advice, so I gave him a breakdown. I laid out the pitfalls. I laid out a couple avenues for success. I pointed to his own Jedi idol (actual, not fictional) and the wrong turns he made. "Learn From". Here are examples - remember these as you move forward. When tough decisions come - and they will come - remember these giants and how they fell. He invited me to join him as he built this group, I accepted (history in the making if nothing else). Then it was clear - decisions were being made, but they screamed of an era that had all but disappeared. The same mistakes in new packaging. The same misguided focus - Organizational Value over Jedi Value. Mistaking leadership for popularity.

I spoke up - I was shouted down. I warned - I was a labelled a doomsayer. I laid it all out - they voted to cast me out.

History will be repeated if it is not learned from. And it has not been learned from. The lesson? Culture isn't what you preach, it is what you allow.
24 years and that hasn't sunk in yet.

We do not rise to our ideals; We fall to our training.

Just because someone says what you're saying is a threat, doesn't make it one.

Just because someone says you're always after them, it doesn't make it so.

Yell it as loud as you want. But as tarkin put it 'if sayigg it only made it so'... Because it doesn't.

Feeble attempt, a predictable attempt, a rusty blade you have become.

Will there ever be a Jedi meetup in my neck of the woods? I love being a part of this online community, but sometimes I wish I could meet many of you face to face.

I... Am an idiot. A f***ing idiot.

That is all.

Put it off. Put it off. One more day. I'll take care of it at this time, later on. Procrastination .... Something I fight on a continual basis and a recent reminder of why that fight is important. I allowed routine maintenance on my car to keep being pushed back. And now, I need my car towed and will have to pay much more than simple maintenance would have cost. And I still need some extra work done, such as alignment. Today will not be a cheap day. I will miss at least half of my work day (which is a financial hit and just means more work for me throughout the week). My own stupidity and laziness. I knew I needed to get my car into the shop and that would have prevented this issue. But nope - held it off. Nice work Jedi. Way to stay on top of things. Idiot.

Warning/Preface: [TRIGGER] The rant contained below may be considered highly controversial and offensive. For that reason it has been encased within a spoiler. If you are prone to or are currently experiencing suicidal ideation or wish not to be offended DO NOT CLICK.

Swears

Kohadre wrote: Warning/Preface: [TRIGGER] The rant contained below may be considered highly controversial and offensive. For that reason it has been encased within a spoiler. If you are prone to or are currently experiencing suicidal ideation or wish not to be offended DO NOT CLICK.

Warning: Spoiler!

TLDR; Humanity is a plague, and upon reaching sentience and self awareness; our ancestors should have done the noble thing and erased all traces of human life, including their own.

Out of time to rant.

Happy MDW!

My... My... Aren't you after my own dark little heart. That thought is literally titillating! Why? Not sure, it just excited me.

Phoenix Vidensia wrote:

Kohadre wrote: Warning/Preface: [TRIGGER] The rant contained below may be considered highly controversial and offensive. For that reason it has been encased within a spoiler. If you are prone to or are currently experiencing suicidal ideation or wish not to be offended DO NOT CLICK.

Warning: Spoiler!

TLDR; Humanity is a plague, and upon reaching sentience and self awareness; our ancestors should have done the noble thing and erased all traces of human life, including their own.

Out of time to rant.

Happy MDW!

My... My... Aren't you after my own dark little heart. That thought is literally titillating! Why? Not sure, it just excited me.

Warning: Spoiler!

And makes me a bit aroused *blush*

Awwww I love it when two Siths find each other! Makes feel all warm and fuzzy inside! Occasionally it also disturbs me and makes me want to vomit in my mouth, but I'll take the bad with the good

EDIT: I thought the original post was by Khaos. Please ignore me and my stupidity