Is Ren our Anakin Skywalker???!

FraterDavid wrote:

ren wrote: I was on the path quite a few years before joining totjo, and joining (as in becoming a temple member) the way new people join (quick intro, filling app, copy/paste oath) wouldn't have been honest or " authentic ", and I'm pretty big on that....

I'm genuinely curious... what makes you say that going through the process (presumably you meant specifically for you) would not have been honest or authentic? That could refer to many different things.
I feel a story here...

Thanks in advance,
-David

Well it's not much of a story really. Although things have changed since I joined, I was not willing to change my beliefs just to fit in totjo. Just the oath was a bit of a problem. I wasn't willing to profess my allegiance to the will of the Force because I don't believe it has one. But, after putting some thought into it, I came to the conclusion that with the way I look at the Force, "will" could be interpreted at the passage of time itself. Since I believe that is part of the Force, it seemed fitting... Similar story with the doctrine. The oath asks me to uphold the Jedi teachings... I wasn't going to lie (openly or to myself) I want to uphold whatever the Jedi teachings (as totjo describes them) are if I 'know' it probably won't happen.

ren wrote: Well it's not much of a story really.

Thanks for sharing it, all the same.

ren wrote: Although things have changed since I joined, I was not willing to change my beliefs just to fit in totjo. Just the oath was a bit of a problem.

Ah, I see.

ren wrote: I wasn't willing to profess my allegiance to the will of the Force because I don't believe it has one.

Many people here seem to feel that way, no pun intended. I have come to this conclusion as an indirect way of expressing my perspective on it: the Force can be said to have a will, in the same way that the full moon is said to have brightness. What would you say to this assertion, in relation to your view of the Force?

ren wrote: But, after putting some thought into it, I came to the conclusion that with the way I look at the Force, "will" could be interpreted at the passage of time itself. Since I believe that is part of the Force, it seemed fitting...

This sounds intriguing, but I'm not sure I follow... (assuming you meant to say "as the passage") How do you interpret "will" as the passage of time? Do you mean in the sense that the word "will" can be interpreted as a future tense linking verb? (If so, that's clever, and there's quite a bit of gold there.) Or some other reason entirely?

ren wrote: Similar story with the doctrine. The oath asks me to uphold the Jedi teachings... I wasn't going to lie (openly or to myself) I want to uphold whatever the Jedi teachings (as totjo describes them) are if I 'know' it probably won't happen.

This part I can certainly relate to. I was very cautious about that myself. What did you have to do to become sure?

Fraternally,
-David

Many people here seem to feel that way, no pun intended. I have come to this conclusion as an indirect way of expressing my perspective on it: the Force can be said to have a will, in the same way that the full moon is said to have brightness. What would you say to this assertion, in relation to your view of the Force?

It seems fitting. When it comes to my own view of what can be meant by "will of the Force", I say it is merely a perception of the passage of time (since what the force "wills" actually happens), in the same way (I guess) the brightness of the moon is in fact an indirect perception of the Sun's light.

This sounds intriguing, but I'm not sure I follow... (assuming you meant to say "as the passage") How do you interpret "will" as the passage of time? Do you mean in the sense that the word "will" can be interpreted as a future tense linking verb? (If so, that's clever, and there's quite a bit of gold there.) Or some other reason entirely?

I perceive time as being "in" the Force. The past, the present, the future... they already exist within the Force. So, what the Force "wills" already exists, we just haven't perceived it yet, as it is in our future. I guess the catch here is I don't believe it is possible for the Force to "want" something, and that something doesn't happen. Know what I mean?

This part I can certainly relate to. I was very cautious about that myself. What did you have to do to become sure?

Ask questions in Council chambers as to what exactly was meant by "Jedi teachings"