SUPREME COURT UPHOLDS LITTLE CAESAR’S RIGHT TO FEED CHRISTIAN EMPLOYEES TO LIONS

But, at the same time, they're willing to pay for vasectomies and Viagra, which I would think the vasectomies are against their beliefs, what with life being so precious and all. Not sure about the boner pills, though. :huh:

Are they willing to pay for vasectomies? I have not heard specifics on that.

But normally, unless there is a medical need for it a lot of doctors will not perform a vasectomy unless you already have children. Or at least the doctors I have spoken with.

But I would agree that unless it is medically relative to the health of the individual that vasectomies fall under the same category and receive the same treatment as all other birth control. There should not be a double standard.

And like wise, there are surgeries that prevent women from having children that are conducted for medical reasons that should be allowed given that it is for the health of the patient. Regardless of the religious beliefs.

I agree about the medical necessity aspect to some things. Here's one article about it what I mentioned.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/30/hobby-lobby-viagra_n_5543916.html

But, then, there are several sources talking about the outrage over this. There are also others who would say that HL still covers these two things because the Affordable Care Act doesn't. Still more to read, but, from the outside, it looks a bit hypocritical.

As it was explained to me…

[HR]
Hobby Lobby has covered in the past, and will continue to cover, 16 of the 20 FDA approved forms of birth control, including some which are fairly male specific. The four which they objected to covering are the two emergency pills and IUDs, based upon the premise that life begins at fertilization, rather than implantation, and these four methods prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg, rather than fertilization itself. Therefore, while those four methods are not medically defined as abortifacients, morally, the owners of the company consider them to be abortifacients, thus the objection based upon religion.

What is covered:

Male condoms
Female condoms
Diaphragms with spermicide
Sponges with spermicide
Cervical caps with spermicide
Spermicide alone
Birth-control pills with estrogen and progestin (“Combined Pill)
Birth-control pills with progestin alone (“The Mini Pill)
Birth control pills (extended/continuous use)
Contraceptive patches
Contraceptive rings
Progestin injections
Implantable rods
Vasectomies
Female sterilization surgeries
Female sterilization implants


All these methods are provided to their employees co-pay free. So it's not a matter really of not providing their employees with birth control, because they're covering 80% of the approved forms, but rather, they just don't want to pay for the remaining four methods they consider to cause abortion, based upon their own morals and beliefs.


[HR]

I have not had the chance to look into it further and verify any of that, but I do trust the person that explained it to me not to purposefully lead me astray. And I have to say that it falls in line with what I do know about the company so it is relatively easy for me to believe.

PS. I have no idea what half of the things covered are and I'm not sure I even want to know! hahahahhahhahha

Luthien wrote: But, at the same time, they're willing to pay for vasectomies and Viagra, which I would think the vasectomies are against their beliefs, what with life being so precious and all. Not sure about the boner pills, though. :huh:

It's my understanding that Hobby Lobby's gripes are with "abortative" types of birth control (i.e., post-conception) rather than preventative. Vasectomies are not only preventative, but they provide a better economical efficiency over their lifespan--you pay once for that and it's done, it's not a recurring expense that will potentially rise in cost in the future.

Just my theory.

I think both you and Wescli said (roughly) the same thing and make the most logical sense in that regard. I have met some die-hard fans of the Bible (sc. Fundamentalists) who think that even vasectomies aren't right in the eyes of God because it precludes the procreation of which God commanded. An extreme form, I know, but is one I've interacted with in the past. To each their own, I say. Anyway, it makes economical sense to allow preventative methods, but it only makes religious sense to prevent an after-the-fact removal, which I hardly think is very recurring in the Hobby Lobby realm. Then again, it's a private company who wish only to pay for things they can agree with. Do lots more reading and thinking, I must. Well, it's not like I'm going to change the outcome, but I want to be sure that I understand it better.

After some searching and reading I ran across this...

Products bearing "Made in China" labels are found all over the shelves at Hobby Lobby, evidence that some of its wares come from Chinese factories that have a reputation for labor rights violations and rock-bottom wages. Employees at these facilities often end up working grueling hours in prison-like conditions and never earn enough to escape poverty.

"You cannot call your business 'Christian' when arguing before the Supreme Court, and then set aside Christian values when you're placing a bulk order for cheap wind chimes," wrote Christian author and columnist Jonathan Merritt in a recent article for The Week.

Hobby Lobby remains quiet about its dealings in China. The company did not respond to requests for a list of Chinese factories it does business with, and did not provide information about what percentage of its merchandise comes from China.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/01/hobby-lobby-christian_n_5545618.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

So let me get this straight… (Hypothetical) If I were to call myself a Christian with Christian values I can’t buy products from someone who is not or doesn’t share my beliefs or I’m a hypocrite? :huh:

What is this world coming to? It’s almost like people will do and say anything to get what they think they want. :pinch:

Doesn’t the bible preach something about not judging others lest you be judged, and forgiveness? And all that noise? :whistle:

Wescli Wardest wrote: Doesn’t the bible preach something about not judging others lest you be judged, and forgiveness?

The Bible says lots of things nobody pays any attention to. Go to any protestant church on a Sunday morning, or read about any Catholic parish on the front page of a newspaper for proof.

Wescli Wardest wrote: So let me get this straight… (Hypothetical) If I were to call myself a Christian with Christian values I can’t buy products from someone who is not or doesn’t share my beliefs or I’m a hypocrite? :huh:

You dont see that as helping perpetuate the thing that you are against?

Its ok, as long as you are not doing it?

Would you have rode the bus after Rosa Parks indecent?

Would you buy sugar/coffee/tobacco/cotton if you knew there were slaves working behind it?

Just thought proding, not saying you would...

What is this world coming to? It’s almost like people will do and say anything to get what they think they want. :pinch:

Sure, emotion sells better, lol...

Doesn’t the bible preach something about not judging others lest you be judged, and forgiveness? And all that noise? :whistle:

Not judging a slave owner, is not the same as supporting them, by buying their slave products, lol...

Jestor wrote:
You dont see that as helping perpetuate the thing that you are against?

Its ok, as long as you are not doing it?

Would you have rode the bus after Rosa Parks indecent?

Would you buy sugar/coffee/tobacco/cotton if you knew there were slaves working behind it?

Just thought proding, not saying you would...

Not judging a slave owner, is not the same as supporting them, by buying their slave products, lol...

WORD!

I personally think that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. For a few reasons.
Firstly, as Wes pointed out, the employees are not being prevented from accessing birth control. ONLY birth control that effectively prevents a pregnancy from becoming viable. But people are reacting as thought they have declared that women should be dragged back into the kitchen and knocked up immediately.

I think that the media has make this something of a badly reported circus, and that knee jerk reactions have been triggered.

That said: If the freedom of religion thing extends to everybody, then hobby lobby has no right to impose their own religious beliefs upon anyone, even employees. And if employees must share the religious views of their employers then that is discrimination. So I guess the question is, whos religious freedom is more important, the owners of hobby lobby? or that of its employees?

not to mention, for another whole host of reasons, access to emergency contraception is important (especially as it is most often used when something has failed with normal contraceptive methods). And while i know a few people have said that they don't see a health benefit, there may well be, but that is a case by case basis, and there are also mental health considerations involved. (not to mention economic if you want to go down that route)