Atheism: Belief or not a belief?

TheDude wrote: Atheism is a belief.
Doubt exists only when there is a subject to be doubted and a doubter willing to doubt. When a subject, in this case God/Gods, is doubted, it is made subject to inquiry. Agnostics stop at doubting, and don't go into further inquiry to determine whether the claim "God(s) exist" is true or false. Atheists, however, pursue inquiry until they come to the conclusion that there are no Gods, erasing previously held beliefs and doubts and replacing them with a new belief.
And by belief I'm referring to any piece of information which is not verifiable to absolute certainty. For example, it is a fact that something exists (cogito ergo sum) but almost everything else is a belief. I believe that there is a lamp in this room with me, since I see it and have interacted with it, but I may be subject to an illusion or some other deception, and so the existence of the lamp is not absolutely certain. As a result, I can only say that I believe the lamp is there or that I believe there is no lamp there. If someone is atheist, it is because they have followed the pattern from belief to doubt to inquiry and back to belief. So I think atheism is a belief.

Your confusing atheism with what an atheist may believe.

I am probably going to offend people....

Atheism, from what I have witnessed, is anti-Christianity. God, in monotheistic religions, is the “creator” and source of all moral authority. The Supreme Being. But mankind has many “Gods” that it worships and sees as their moral authority, creator and/or source of power. Money is what many worship, even though they claim to worship something else or nothing. They believe in the happiness, power and ability for it to create in their lives. Their moral compass is centered on money and the gathering and use of it. For some it is power, or fame, science or whatever.

The truly arrogant believe in their own abilities to do and provide the same for themselves. :ohmy:

Even if someone said to me that they do not believe in anything and just go through life with no fate assigned to them, all alone and having no control over anything I would ask them if they thought that luck played a role in their existence? And if they said there were no such thing as luck then I might, might believe they are the only Atheist on Earth. All other people should probably take a good long hard look at themselves and their lives and come up with a name for the religion that they actually practice… Money-ist, Power-ist, Fame-ist, Collecting Crap-ist, Hate-ist, Self-Importance-ist…

I do not blame Atheist for predominately being anti-Christian. That particular religion has done quite a bit over its course to tarnish its name. And has had a negative effect on people and their lives all throughout its history. But, then again, they should probably call themselves what they actually are… Anti-Christian-ist.

Your not wrong to draw a conclusion from your experiences, and I'm sure there are many people who fit your view, but I would be wary of applying it absolutely.

Wescli Wardest wrote: I am probably going to offend people....

Atheism, from what I have witnessed, is anti-Christianity. God, in monotheistic religions, is the “creator” and source of all moral authority. The Supreme Being. But mankind has many “Gods” that it worships and sees as their moral authority, creator and/or source of power. Money is what many worship, even though they claim to worship something else or nothing. They believe in the happiness, power and ability for it to create in their lives. Their moral compass is centered on money and the gathering and use of it. For some it is power, or fame, science or whatever.

The truly arrogant believe in their own abilities to do and provide the same for themselves. :ohmy:

Even if someone said to me that they do not believe in anything and just go through life with no fate assigned to them, all alone and having no control over anything I would ask them if they thought that luck played a role in their existence? And if they said there were no such thing as luck then I might, might believe they are the only Atheist on Earth. All other people should probably take a good long hard look at themselves and their lives and come up with a name for the religion that they actually practice… Money-ist, Power-ist, Fame-ist, Collecting Crap-ist, Hate-ist, Self-Importance-ist…

I do not blame Atheist for predominately being anti-Christian. That particular religion has done quite a bit over its course to tarnish its name. And has had a negative effect on people and their lives all throughout its history. But, then again, they should probably call themselves what they actually are… Anti-Christian-ist.

There is such thing as secular morality. The lack of belief in God/gods doesn't automatically mean belief in destructive social practices.

Also, Christianity isn't the only theist belief structure out there. It's not all about you, you know?

Thank you Rugadd.
I am always wary of how I apply things and always open to new information to help me better find a more complete view. I have found that even Logic-ist and Science-ist fit in to this broad view. It is not a bad thing to know what people dedicate their lives to or what they believe. It may not always be what they thought, but that is also part of self-discovery… discovering.

Wescli Wardest wrote: I am probably going to offend people....

Atheism, from what I have witnessed, is anti-Christianity. God, in monotheistic religions, is the “creator” and source of all moral authority. The Supreme Being. But mankind has many “Gods” that it worships and sees as their moral authority, creator and/or source of power. Money is what many worship, even though they claim to worship something else or nothing. They believe in the happiness, power and ability for it to create in their lives. Their moral compass is centered on money and the gathering and use of it. For some it is power, or fame, science or whatever.

The truly arrogant believe in their own abilities to do and provide the same for themselves. :ohmy:

Even if someone said to me that they do not believe in anything and just go through life with no fate assigned to them, all alone and having no control over anything I would ask them if they thought that luck played a role in their existence? And if they said there were no such thing as luck then I might, might believe they are the only Atheist on Earth. All other people should probably take a good long hard look at themselves and their lives and come up with a name for the religion that they actually practice… Money-ist, Power-ist, Fame-ist, Collecting Crap-ist, Hate-ist, Self-Importance-ist…

I do not blame Atheist for predominately being anti-Christian. That particular religion has done quite a bit over its course to tarnish its name. And has had a negative effect on people and their lives all throughout its history. But, then again, they should probably call themselves what they actually are… Anti-Christian-ist.

Yet another way to look at it, sure, if you think of the universe in terms of gods. Just semantics, as far as I'm concerned. A god for one can be called a focus for another. Doesn't necessarily mean that it's some kind or religion.

On the note about being anti-Christian, I wouldn't go so far as that, but merely anti-take-this-in-your-face-ism. There are atheists who do go out of their way, for whatever reason (there are many), to push others out of their beliefs. That isn't okay and it's just as bigoted and intolerant as a Fundie knocking on my door to tell me I'm going to hell. Open and honest discussion is the best way, I've found, to either convince another person why they're wrong, or to come to a point of co-tolerance. I like to just discuss why I'm not and listen to why they are and respect their decision to remain that way.

Secular morality is not much more than the passing fancy of what is commonly accepted at the time and changes with time and each passing generation. This can be seen and followed through the accounts of pass generations and cultures.

I am well aware that it is not all about me. In fact, it is not about me at all. I know what I believe and what I worship/adore. What I am not convinced of is that others have such clarity in their convictions.

Luthien wrote: Open and honest discussion is the best way, I've found, to either convince another person why they're wrong, or to come to a point of co-tolerance. I like to just discuss why I'm not and listen to why they are and respect their decision to remain that way.

Why would you want to convince another person that they are wrong?

Wescli Wardest wrote: Thank you Rugadd.
I am always wary of how I apply things and always open to new information to help me better find a more complete view. I have found that even Logic-ist and Science-ist fit in to this broad view. It is not a bad thing to know what people dedicate their lives to or what they believe. It may not always be what they thought, but that is also part of self-discovery… discovering.

For the record, I love religion. It is a wonderful way to sublimate life, something I feel everyone should do.

I do so here, with this community.

Wescli Wardest wrote: Secular morality is not much more than the passing fancy of what is commonly accepted at the time and changes with time and each passing generation. This can be seen and followed through the accounts of pass generations and cultures.

I am well aware that it is not all about me. In fact, it is not about me at all. I know what I believe and what I worship/adore. What I am not convinced of is that others have such clarity in their convictions.

So you don't trust your fellow man to have morals outside of an organized religion? It must be a very frightening world you live in!