Atheism: Belief or not a belief?

Miss_Leah wrote:

Snowy Aftermath wrote: I did not ask for and do not want this thread, Goken. I don't come to TotJO to tell other people who they are. I didn't show up here to tell this guy how to be a Christian or that guy how to be a Pagan. It doesn't matter what Cable or anyone else says on the matter, they aren't living it and certainly express no real interest in learning about it, they just want to dictate to me who I am. To show up and INSIST that something that they aren't living or experiencing is a certain way is nothing but arrogance. How would they know?

So everybody have fun arguing about something you aren't even interested in learning more about. Have fun making assumptions about other people and dropping generalizations. Have fun being part of the group that trusts rapists more than atheists . What do I care?

I have to deal with this ignorant BS in the real world, I'm not going to stand alone in yet another thread. You all claim to be open-minded. Use your mind. Go google it and study it in actual places where we roll.

I will not be run out of here like you all did to Mahogany.

I'm assuming here, but I think that the thread is not to discuss if atheism is valid or not, but whether it can be called a "belief" or not, seeing as strictly speaking, it means an absence of belief in God.

I personally think it's irrelevant, because everyone has beliefs, whether they have a name for the dogma, or a deity, or prophet, etc.

Either way, I don't think it's meant to be a dig at atheists.

I ll take it a step further even , the question is , Belief or not a belief , then the question is : is it or not , what do YOU think ...so no judgement , no telling what they should be or not be , or belief even , ...and your answer is ..its irrelevant :lol: and thats fine too

lol, I'm curious as to what an atheist doctrine would look like. Perhaps a book on the scientific method?

EDIT: SOrry! This thing took off and I though you posted a PM Goken. My apologies!

Luthien wrote: Let's see. Hypothetically, if a person has never heard of god or anything related, what would you classify them as? Non-theist, atheist, non-believer? They don't necessarily "believe" that there is no god, just lack the belief because there is nothing to not believe in. I would probably classify it as agnosticism, but also atheism.

I would call them extremely lucky

Miss_Leah wrote: I'm assuming here, but I think that the thread is not to discuss if atheism is valid or not, but whether it can be called a "belief" or not, seeing as strictly speaking, it means an absence of belief in God.

I personally think it's irrelevant, because everyone has beliefs, whether they have a name for the dogma, or a deity, or prophet, etc.

Either way, I don't think it's meant to be a dig at atheists.

Christians say that atheism is a "belief" or "religion" all of the time to discredit us and claim that there are no real atheists. I can not understand why supposedly intelligent human beings cannot wrap their minds around this one and ONLY simple identifying feature.

Atheism is a belief as much as bald is a hair color.

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

Miss_Leah wrote: I'm assuming here, but I think that the thread is not to discuss if atheism is valid or not, but whether it can be called a "belief" or not, seeing as strictly speaking, it means an absence of belief in God.

I personally think it's irrelevant, because everyone has beliefs, whether they have a name for the dogma, or a deity, or prophet, etc.

Either way, I don't think it's meant to be a dig at atheists.

Christians say that atheism is a "belief" or "religion" all of the time to discredit us and claim that there are no real atheists. I can not understand why supposedly intelligent human beings cannot wrap their minds around this one simple identifying feature.

Atheism is a belief as much as bald is a hair color.

Exactly. Just like off is a channel on tv (like I said before).

Snowy Aftermath wrote: Christians say that atheism is a "belief" or "religion" all of the time to discredit us and claim that there are no real atheists. I can not understand why supposedly intelligent human beings cannot wrap their minds around this one and ONLY simple identifying feature.

Atheism is a belief as much as bald is a hair color.

Nobody is here to discredit anybody, only to try to explore something they may not have a full understanding of. Isn't that why we're all here?

Lets try defining "belief"

Belief (noun)

1. something believed; an opinion or conviction:
a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof:
a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust:
a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith:
the Christian belief.

Okay...belief doesn't apply to atheism unless we assume it does from the get go, which is fallacious.

Alright, if we can accept that, why then, would people call atheism a belief? Perhaps because their own perspective is seen through that lens? Their "wired" to see it as one?

Luthien wrote:

Goken wrote:

Edan wrote: What about those like me who think god is unlikely, and also don't care about whether there is?

I think that's called Agnostic. I could be wrong though.

Nope. Still Atheism. Unless the person expresses that they "don't know," which is the literal definition (roughly) of Agnosticism (Not Known/No knowledge -> A-gnostic).

Thanks. I just remembered that my father once explained it to me like this:

There's a curtain that's closed. A Christian says that God is on the other side. An Atheist says that there's nothing on the other side. An Agnostic says "How should I know? It's closed." :laugh: