Hell Fire

Priwen wrote: "Hell" is a representation of a disconnect from "God" in the Christian religion. That's why "Satan" is king of hell, because he openly rebelled against "God" and purposely created a rift between them. I would say that rift is hell. It also mentions that "Jesus" went to "Hell" and brought righteous souls who wanted to leave to "Heaven", not many decided to go with him. Point being, you put yourself there and you can leave whenever you like with the help of the divine.

As far as Jediism goes, I have no authority, but I would say that the more you stray away from The Force the worse you will feel in your daily life. Though to me it's the same idea as Judeo-Christian ideal that "God" never leaves your side, especially in times where you lack faith. The Force never leaves you, especially if you're in turmoil.

And how does one stray from the force? To sever the link is to cut the ties to life itself, and that's not metaphorically speaking either. Campbell said something to the fact that our bodies have a whisper of its own, (perhaps the pulse of the force) guiding us on how to live a more whole life. That was the reason for Darth Vaders demise. He turned into a crackup because he stopped listening to what his "heart" was telling him. He didn't take it to the extreme so much as to ignore it altogether. Being out of sync with your mind and body and the environment your in, then becoming purely a mental being, identifying with your thoughts while cutting yourself off from the source, That IS Hell...

Zenchi wrote: And how does one stray from the force? To sever the link is to cut the ties to life itself, and that's not metaphorically speaking either. Campbell said something to the fact that our bodies have a whisper of its own, (perhaps the pulse of the force) guiding us on how to live a more whole life. That was the reason for Darth Vaders demise. He turned into a crackup because he stopped listening to what his "heart" was telling him. He didn't take it to the extreme so much as to ignore it altogether. Being out of sync with your mind and body and the environment your in, then becoming purely a mental being, identifying with their thoughts, and thinking way too much. That IS Hell...

Well, when I say "stray" I mean slowly drifting away from. Surely you feel The Force stronger when you are practicing mindfulness and are appreciating the world around you rather than when you are focused on more impermanent and worldly desires?

When it comes to the Dark and Light side, it is Fear vs. Hope, and we have two "hearts" that tell us different desires based on which one we are giving our attention to. Anakin's Fear of losing his family was so strong that it became a self-fulfilling prophecy, leading him to become Darth Vader. When he saw that his son had become a true Jedi, his Hope overcame his Fear and he gained the courage to defy his master.

He decided to leave "Hell".

Priwen wrote: Surely you feel The Force stronger when you are practicing mindfulness and are appreciating the world around you rather than when you are focused on more impermanent and worldly desires?

Is that a definition or an observation. In both cases: Source, please.

To split the difference between Zenchi and Priwen...

My understanding of the Force leads me to think that one cannot actually detach from it. That said, I can detach in the sense that I am not conscious of that connection. Perhaps, in my pain or frustration, I do not 'feel' connected to anything around me. Or I forget that I am part of everything. That illusion of isolation sounds like suffering to me.

I don't know if it qualifies as a hell, but it's awful when it happens.

Gisteron wrote:

Priwen wrote: Surely you feel The Force stronger when you are practicing mindfulness and are appreciating the world around you rather than when you are focused on more impermanent and worldly desires?

Is that a definition or an observation. In both cases: Source, please.

Define what? The statement you quoted was an observation based on how I feel better when acknowledging The Force than when I'm too "caught up" to try and align myself with it, I said "Surely" because I can only assume that it's the same for most.

Your attitude seems very confrontational, there is no right answer here. We're just trying to contribute to Streen's thoughts.

Cabur Senaar wrote: To split the difference between Zenchi and Priwen...

My understanding of the Force leads me to think that one cannot actually detach from it. That said, I can detach in the sense that I am not conscious of that connection. Perhaps, in my pain or frustration, I do not 'feel' connected to anything around me. Or I forget that I am part of everything. That illusion of isolation sounds like suffering to me.

I don't know if it qualifies as a hell, but it's awful when it happens.

Thank you for clarifying my point! Words are hard :S

Streen wrote: Thoughts?

Any guy that's been married for a while knows what hell is and hell fire has nothing to do with it! :laugh:

Streen wrote: Thoughts?

It's important to remember that there are two types of fire found in Christian spirituality. One is a bright, gleaming, cleansing fire--the kind that touched the lips of the prophet in Isaiah. It is the righteous flame of the Holy Spirit, the tongues of fire on the heads of worshippers, the warmth of the love of God, the consuming fire of the sacrificial altar, the light of all things good.

The other is the fire of destruction. Hell, the Lake of Fire, all the imagery that goes with. However, if one notices, Hell is also associated (in biblical text) with great, great darkness. It's a fire that produces no light, only pain. An interesting concept.

Some say hell is other people. Most days, I'm inclined to agree :whistle:

But I do agree with those who say that Hell is well-and-proper the separation from a higher love. The thought of it is unbearable.

Streen wrote: When I was a kid I believed in heaven and hell. After I became a Jedi, I didn't believe in hell. Now, once again I believe in heaven and hell.

What those are depends on the individual. I don't think heaven and hell are two fixed places that are the same for everyone, nor do I think you have to stay in one or the other permanently. But the point of my post is that I heard a pastor say something unexpected. He said he's been asked multiple times whether or not he believes in real fire in hell. He said No. Mostly because, first, Jesus talked about it more than anything else, and second, he always talked symbolically.

The pastor explained that Jesus said God's love burns like fire. Surely that wasn't literal. So he went on to suggest that hell might simply be disconnection from God, that his love burns people in hell as torture, as something they can no longer touch.

Thoughts?

That's basically the way Orthodox Christians explain it, and they are the absolute oldest Christian tradition, so that might tell you something.

Older than Roman Catholic?

Rickie The Grey wrote: Older than Roman Catholic?

the Byzantine/Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic traditions both trace their roots back to the Apostles, so are equal.