Atheist Jedi

Khaos wrote: Communication is important.

Connection is essential to communication.

A smile on a person usually, if not always( as I have dealt with the mentally ill where this isnt the case, but they communicate poorly) that the person is conveying happiness.

Its less a matter of attributing meaning to something here, then going off previous evidence of having it conveyed to you.

It was the logical answer, it was simply a trick question.

It was.

I am an Atheist Jedi (or an Agnostic Jedi, but really somewhere in-between...so we'll go with Atheist for the purposes of this discussion).

I am an Atheist because I don't believe in a personal deity (a God), and my understanding of the term 'Atheist' means just that.

However, there might be someone out there with exactly the same Jedi beliefs as me who would not believe themselves to be an Atheist Jedi, and that is fine with me. It all depends on how you define the word, and also the terminology that you attach to your personal understanding of the Force (i.e. 'personal' - when this word means two different things to two different people they can experience the Force in the same way whilst one finds it to be personal and the other doesn't).

So yes, Atheist Jedi exist - the proof being in that I am one. And yes, for others, it is not possible for them to be an Atheist Jedi because in their understanding there is no such thing - and I and they are both right. Confusing...

On the matter of 'worship' - I don't believe that I worship the Force. I noted the example of those who 'worship' money - personally, I don't perceive people as worshipping money. At least not in a religious sense. 'Worship'. in the context of worshipping money, is a word that we have adapted to mean something different (i.e. enjoy/love/obsess over/crave etc). Again, it's all in one's understanding and application of the terminology.

A tricky thing, is language... :dry:

Khaos wrote: I am of the mind that religion itself was a way to communicate that which we could and couldnt understand at a given point in time in history.

Outdated software that was never updated.

I agree, but at the same time, there are things that Religion did for society that should not be lost. Yes, the divine worship thing is kind of medieval... but, the act of feasting around a table, meeting strangers, singing together, reading and analyzing texts, listening to orators, those kinds of rituals that were done as a community... I would love to still have those as a part of a secular society.

I'm curious.

Let's say "Pureland Jedi" and "Atheist Jedi" are both agreeably legitimate separate stances.

What would the difference between them be, if there is one?

I believe in the fabric concept also (since it sort of sits into contemplating about gravity), and view concepts like God as generated by the individuals mind to explain high order experiences (of the Force, which is everything anyway).

Does the God I might see in a vision exist, at that time yes, but only as my interpretation of something happening. I dont draw out all details of the experience as some truth - I instead see it as my mind trying to understand something more powerful then me.

So while I don't believe a God is sitting on a throne somewhere, I would say the Force (a greater experience) perhaps can be experienced in such a way that the mind contextualizes something foreign yet personal into a hybridized result, and elaborates upon that result as part of the process of trying to understand and experience it in human terms of reference.

If I view that as the process of experiencing a God or other high order experience, then I don't claim to be able to understand the nature of the source to its full extent - as a result of the apparent inability of the mind to communicate something greater then myself. I'll just assume its beyond my capacity as evidenced by the mind trying its best to understand it with the tools available to me.

So I don't think atheist is particularly useful because I find it more useful to associate a potential for deeper meaning into these experiences. To say there is 'no God' would be a belief in something I cannot know, effectively a delusion!? So I instead say I cannot know, but perhaps I might try to know, and the fruit of that effort is as close as I'll probably get... so God then might best be considered in terms of a personified personal relationship with the Force.

For me it helps with working on dreams or hallucinations to be able to associate experience into some dynamic of causality, otherwise I have no frame of reference to work with.... so I use the concept of the Force (or perhaps just the subconscious mind) trying to blast too much information, or not enough information, into my conscious mind.

So then I've said I believe the Force has a capacity to elucidate a presence, but because the Force is (imo) a different state of consciousness (if you willl) it's appearance to the human mind is temporary... and therefore not of a white bearded, olive skinned old man sitting on a cloud throne judging sinners and saints. I don't though think the Force is temporary, instead its greater potentials are beyond physical manifestation for the most part, and that its physical manifestations available to us are limited by the other aspects of whatever universal dance is really going on around us.

On the side note of time, I view the capacity of the future to exist in the Force as having only a short range, more of a causality map rippling forward only so far, being defeated by the increasing variables as some sort of function between ones will, the impact of actions and number of participants with influence, sort of thing.

This turned out longer then I expected!!

Proteus wrote: I'm curious.

Let's say "Pureland Jedi" and "Atheist Jedi" are both agreeably legitimate separate stances.

What would the difference between them be, if there is one?

Sorry, what does "Pureland" refer to?
I would assume it has something to do with a God or Gods since the other is atheist, but I have never heard the term.

Renny wrote:

Proteus wrote: I'm curious.

Let's say "Pureland Jedi" and "Atheist Jedi" are both agreeably legitimate separate stances.

What would the difference between them be, if there is one?

Sorry, what does "Pureland" refer to?
I would assume it has something to do with a God or Gods since the other is atheist, but I have never heard the term.

"Pureland" (as far as I've heard) is the term for "just Jedi", with no accessory beliefs (like Christianity, paganism, etc) tied to it. The only belief is in that of the Force and nothing more. It used to be considered a rite within Jediism, at least here, before rites became special interest groups.

Proteus wrote: I'm curious.

Let's say "Pureland Jedi" and "Atheist Jedi" are both agreeably legitimate separate stances.

What would the difference between them be, if there is one?

Could be nothing... Which is how I see it...

Could be enough that a "self described" Atheist/PureLand denies being a part of the other...

And needs a dividing line...

Jestor wrote:

Proteus wrote: I'm curious.

Let's say "Pureland Jedi" and "Atheist Jedi" are both agreeably legitimate separate stances.

What would the difference between them be, if there is one?

Could be nothing... Which is how I see it...

Could be enough that a "self described" Atheist/PureLand denies being a part of the other...

And needs a dividing line...

Jestor wrote:

Proteus wrote: I'm curious.

Let's say "Pureland Jedi" and "Atheist Jedi" are both agreeably legitimate separate stances.

What would the difference between them be, if there is one?

Could be nothing... Which is how I see it...

Could be enough that a "self described" Atheist/PureLand denies being a part of the other...

And needs a dividing line...

To clarify...

In the last two.lines, I meant:

The difference could be enough that the person on question felt the need to differentiate between the two....

Lol, am I clear? I don't feel like it, :lol:...