Taoism

I agree with you Rickie the Grey, there is very little difference in the basic philosophy of jedi and tao. Apart from the words we use to describe it, and if studying tao has taught me anything it's that words do not really suffice.

Alexandre Orion wrote: "A drunken man who falls out of a cart, though he may suffer, does not die. His bones are the same as other people's; but he meets his accident in a different way. His spirit is in a condition of security. He is not concious of riding in the cart; neither is he concious of falling out of it. Ideas of life, death, fear and the like cannot penetrate his breast; and so he does not suffer from contact with objective existence. If such security is to be got from wine, how much more is to be got from the Tao ?"

~ Chuang Tzu

So, if you're not in Tao, get drunk :whistle:
by the way, does humor belongs in Tao ?

What you said was funny. So why not?

Andy Spalding wrote: You only really need the first part of the Tao.

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.

After reading this you might as well close the book and head out for a walk because the rest is just saying the same things in different, equally vague, words.

If you are looking for something with less Eastern wisdom(vagueary) you should look in to stoicism. Many of the same concepts presented for a western mind

i agree with andy. it reads as so much vagueness to me, which i guess is the point. in one of my last chapter reviews of biocentrism, after dr lanza mentions eastern religions again as clearly more favorable than western ones, i wondered:

'what it is about Westerners becoming enamored with Eastern religions. My guess is that the Eastern religions have the flavor of the new, the mysterious and the unknowable. ‘This religion/philosophy/whatever must be awesome because no one can understand it’ kind of thing.'

i started writing my own little taoisms a little while ago, after seeing the tao quoted all over the place here. my favorite one i posted, about the catfish. equally vague and meaningless as what i have been reading. o, i know, i know: 'desolous, thats the point.'

Desolous wrote: ...after dr lanza mentions eastern religions again as clearly more favorable than western ones, i wondered:

'what it is about Westerners becoming enamored with Eastern religions. My guess is that the Eastern religions have the flavor of the new, the mysterious and the unknowable. ‘This religion/philosophy/whatever must be awesome because no one can understand it’ kind of thing.'

By 'western religions' I presume, as most do, that you mean 'Christianity/Islam/Judaism' + their various forms. Even though Paganism/Wicca are also arguably 'western religions' but they just don't get the same level of publicity...

But with regards to the former three religions, they are typically about submitting yourself to a higher power (or at least are warped into that by some churches) "OBEY US AND BE SAVED!"

Whereas when people make the comparison to Eastern religions it is typically with the view that they are all about You yourself rather than submittance to a higher power.

It is down to the differences in philosophy based, a lot in the west, on Descarte (the world is a clock we can understand by taking it apart) as opposed to the holistic views you find in Eastern thought.

It is a good idea actually to read through it. Seeing as how they are small books, why not take them on your walk with you ?

Could we see your "taoisms", Des ?

You know, neither Lao Tzu, Chuange Tzu nor Lieh Tzu "copyrighted" anything at all. Some translators in recent years, say - the last couple of centuries- may have, but well ... screw them. I wouldn't say they have the flavour of the "new" (that is for those into exoticism), but they are relatively free of tyrannical dogmas - probably because they had enough tyranny in other areas.

As long as you are advocating effortlessness, non-resistance, non-interference, non-expectation and thus the purest, truest vision of love from within, your stuff may very well be every bit as good as the stuff dug out of old China.



Of course, if it is all about control issues and defending the right to kill people, we'll take the piss out of you ...

:laugh:

Alexandre Orion wrote: Could we see your "taoisms", Des ?

...

Of course, if it is all about control issues and defending the right to kill people, we'll take the piss out of you ...

:laugh:

no need to take my piss. and i Have read them, at various points throughout my life. in fact, one of my earliest non-childrens books was on buddhism, which of course from there led to the exploration of other eastern paths, much to the consternation of my catholic mother and secret joy of my agnostic scientist dad. i revisit the tao from time to time. i dont have control issues, nor do i think i have the right to kill someone.

heres the one i posted a while ago:

'Woman goes fishing in a river near her hometown. She hooks giant catfish, obviously larger and older than she, for she was quite small and slender. After wrestling the catfish ashore, she exclaims, 'wow, you're huge! you must be the oldest thing in the river!'

Catfish eyes her lazily and says something in a language the woman doesn't understand, because catfish can't speak english.'

MCSH wrote: I read it once, but I just read, and passed...

I should go and study it again

If you can contact Alexandre Orion, he can help you a lot... he told me he studied it since the past 17 years (lol, same as my age!!!)

You could check out Zhuangzi's writing on the Tao if you haven't! I always recommend him to those that want a bit of a lighter start than the Tao teh Ching. He is a lot more fun to read than the Tao teh Ching and less enigmatic. He's also discretely humorous and mocking in his tone which makes it even more fun to read!

Oh, there's always the Tao of Pooh too! This is how I was really introduced to Taoism and its even more fun to read than Chuang Tzu/Zhuangzi

I've been reading the Tao Te Ching since I was 17, which was approximately 12 years ago. It is one of the books that I readily accepted because it resonated with my inner voice. It's for this same reason that I joined this community because it closely resembles Taoism.

How does the sea become the king of all streams?
Because it lies lower than they!
Hence it is the king of all streams.

Therefore, the Sage reigns over the people by
humbling himself in speech;
And leads the people by putting himself behind.