Applications of Jediism - what significance are Jedi making?

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21 Dec 2015 01:45 - 21 Dec 2015 02:14 #214816 by OB1Shinobi
my personal opinion is that being a jedi is foremost an issue of character development

theres no telling the difference an individual may make over a lifetime if they sincerely pursue a well defined set of principles

give the movement a few more decades and something a little more formally developed and socially measurable might emerge

or it might not

but in the mean time, if it is important to you to make a difference in the world then please make whatever difference you judge most important

if youd like a checklist of accomplishments that any of us have achieved in our lives then stick around and get to know some of us individually - no one is going to come in here and announce how amazing they are

whats the application of doing push ups, or eating broccoli, or learning to paint?

sometimes the application is just general well being - sometimes the activity itself is the application - doing something you enjoy is application enough

right now, jedi is a word that is up for grabs - there are a myriad groups and individuals using the word, and one thing this particular group believes is that each person has an inherent right to determine their own spiritual destiny, and the terms of their own spiritual development, so we're not going to run around telling people "no youre not jedi" or "you have to do x y and z in such and such order" to be allowed to use the jedi moniker

i personally have my own idea ofwhat it means to be jedi, i feel there are some essential presuppositions which work together to create a modern interpretation of ancient archetypes

imo, Jedi is essentially a blend of the warrior and mystic and guardian and scholar

and i am not timid about expressing my views on what this archetype blend requires of us in certain contexts

and i definitely advocate pursuing related activities and taking personal responsibility for ones social influence

but what i wont do is tell someone that they have to have x or y accomplishments have x or y amount of social influence for me to acknowledge the legitimacy of their path

its still a young movement, and at this point what it needs is for as many individuals as possible to personally embody the Jedi ideal to the best of their ability, within their own spheres, in order to set the foundations of the movement to come

People are complicated.
Last edit: 21 Dec 2015 02:14 by OB1Shinobi.
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21 Dec 2015 02:02 - 21 Dec 2015 02:03 #214820 by Entropist

Proteus wrote: How does one's kidney or liver contribute to the body? How can they ensure that they can improve and optimize it? Do they leave their positions in the body and go out to other areas of it to do things beyond what a kidney or liver would already naturally do? If they tried to, what do you think might happen?


Is the meaning of the analogy expressing limitation of certain Jedi practices if an organ goes to another location to perform functions in another system?

I can see the swordplay, meditation, ranged combat, manufacture; but what's the application?

Kitsu Tails wrote: Not sure I understand the question? Can you ask it in another way? The way it comes off to me right now is that the Application of Sword Work would be to work and practice with a sword. The Application of Meditation would be to Meditate.

Are you asking what these subjects have to do with Jedi?

If so the answer would simply be - It dosn't. It is just what Jedi bring forward to train because it is what they find connection towards. (And gives an offline social tool to work together and learn.)


To understand the question, why practice the list of things, for what is the purpose are of these practices to a Jedi to real world applications?

Connor L. wrote: Looks like this person believes being Jedi means that Jedi do ____. Jedi train to do ____.

It's a good question. One that makes sense to ask if you don't already know that Jedi don't necessarily "do" anything as a group.


Thank you, I really didn't know Jedi don't necessarily "do" anything as a group. But what about individual "doings"? What individual applications in the real world can Jedi practices achieve?

Are Jedi to ever do anything as a community in the real world?

Adder wrote: At the moment probably not much in an organized fashion, as most of the effort is on the self - especially considering this is where most of the time is available to exert effort on!! From that the individual can do a lot better at doing the normal things normal people do. Not to say normal is insignificant, so perhaps normal is not the best word.


If individual effort is only the extent of Jedi training, why have apprenticeship or social learning? Does a teamwork operation make sense to achieve a benefit greater than the sum of individual benefits?

So the question might be what would you like to do, and what do you think you need to do, or perhaps how do you think you might learn and grow the most.


Individual growth is the product of practices that benefit a community. I already sent you a message asking if we could engage in a teamwork operation to prove and demonstrate the application towards the homeless this holiday season.

I have strong penchant for freedom, truth, justice, courage, and discipline. Are these akin to Jedi values?
Last edit: 21 Dec 2015 02:03 by Entropist.

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21 Dec 2015 02:13 #214821 by Adder

Entropist wrote:

Adder wrote: At the moment probably not much in an organized fashion, as most of the effort is on the self - especially considering this is where most of the time is available to exert effort on!! From that the individual can do a lot better at doing the normal things normal people do. Not to say normal is insignificant, so perhaps normal is not the best word.


If individual effort is only the extent of Jedi training, why have apprenticeship or social learning? Does a teamwork operation make sense to achieve a benefit greater than the sum of individual benefits?


Humans are highly social, even if it is limited to one person, it seems to be integral to health. The BPS model of health for example is one I like to remember which highlites those three important attributes; biology, psychology and social interaction. So you'll get no argument from me about the requirement to interact with other people. Teamwork is a great way to get something done which is too large for an individual. I don't think anyone is arguing against it, but just trying to answer your question and provide some context to it.

Entropist wrote:

So the question might be what would you like to do, and what do you think you need to do, or perhaps how do you think you might learn and grow the most.


Individual growth is the product of practices that benefit a community. I already sent you a message asking if we could engage in a teamwork operation to prove and demonstrate the application towards the homeless this holiday season.


I just logged into FB to check, yes I got the message. I'll reply in FB :)

Entropist wrote: I have strong penchant for freedom, truth, justice, courage, and discipline. Are these akin to Jedi values?


Yep IMO. I think most all Jedi would agree with them.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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21 Dec 2015 03:16 - 21 Dec 2015 03:45 #214836 by Entropist

OB1Shinobi wrote: my personal opinion is that being a jedi is foremost an issue of character development

theres no telling the difference an individual may make over a lifetime if they sincerely pursue a well defined set of principles

give the movement a few more decades and something a little more formally developed and socially measurable might emerge

or it might not

but in the mean time, if it is important to you to make a difference in the world then please make whatever difference you judge most important

if youd like a checklist of accomplishments that any of us have achieved in our lives then stick around and get to know some of us individually - no one is going to come in here and announce how amazing they are


Thank you, OB1Shinobi, I agree with that we can only be as helpful to others as much as we are helpful to ourselves. But being helpful to others is necessary to test how helpful we were to ourselves, would you agree? If our means were only able to be self-benefitting, or benefit an individual, the means employed to be helpful are unable to be transferrable, and therefore inapplicable to other situations.

I say Jediism is about developing others, solving and preventing problems, as my personal opinion if your opinion is character development, and of individual nature. Saying how amazing we are is quite narcissistic lol, so I agree only some people would say how amazing they are. However, what we can say is by through Jedi practices and principles, 'this feat' was achieved, and accomplished : )

whats the application of doing push ups, or eating broccoli, or learning to paint?

sometimes the application is just general well being - sometimes the activity itself is the application - doing something you enjoy is application enough


The application of doing pushups is to increase fitness in the upper body for displacement of other objects or oneself. Eating broccoli has application to spread out nutritional diversity for sustainability. Learning to paint has application in protecting surfaces or communication. All three examples demonstrate the ability to perform feats - applications. We need trials to test if our means and practices are true and justified.

right now, jedi is a word that is up for grabs - there are a myriad groups and individuals using the word, and one thing this particular group believes is that each person has an inherent right to determine their own spiritual destiny, and the terms of their own spiritual development, so we're not going to run around telling people "no youre not jedi" or "you have to do x y and z in such and such order" to be allowed to use the jedi moniker


Unfortunately I have seen more 'telling and enforcing' other people what being a Jedi means, and devaluing others by saying "no you're not a Jedi".

imo, Jedi is essentially a blend of the warrior and mystic and guardian and scholar


I also very much agree with this definition too. A warrior guardian to nullify and contain violence. A mystic scholar to expand knowledge, practice, and application : )

Further thoughts, comments, evaluation, and questions by anyone are warmly welcomed to further the discussion on the applications of the Jedi : )
Last edit: 21 Dec 2015 03:45 by Entropist.

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21 Dec 2015 13:00 #214895 by Rickie

Entropist wrote: I'm so curious to see what positive impact Jedi are making in the world together?

How many Jedi are you collaborating with?

What amazing benefit are you all making in the world as a Jedi team or community?

How are you achieving this amazing feat? :cheer:

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I would think the first and most important is the amazing benefit and impact is within your self and the question is what positive impact are you making in the world and being a part of a community is like a drop of water in the ocean, together an amazing "force."

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21 Dec 2015 16:25 - 21 Dec 2015 17:01 #214929 by OB1Shinobi

Entropist wrote:
Thank you, OB1Shinobi, I agree with that we can only be as helpful to others as much as we are helpful to ourselves.


well, thats not actually what i said

still, it does point to a general truism which is associated with the idea of character development and the pursuit of personal competence and excellence

Entropist wrote: But being helpful to others is necessary to test how helpful we were to ourselves, would you agree?


not with this wording - youre way too vague here

if i want to test something, first i define precisely what i want to test

to just say "being helpful" is not helpful lol

i do believe that social responsibility is a feature of the Jedi ideal or the Jedi archetype

i also believe that the mail man and the dad or mom who coaches little league are examples of people being socially responsible

for the most part it means participating in an active and nurturing fashion with society, at whatever level you are capable of

if people (Jedi) want to organize specific events for doing this i think thats great - i would encourage everyone to get involved - but i would not demand it of anyone and i dont think it should be considered mandatory that everyone participate with every (or any particular) event

Entropist wrote: If our means were only able to be self-benefitting, or benefit an individual, the means employed to be helpful are unable to be transferrable, and therefore inapplicable to other situations.


again, specifics are important

but GENERALLY, we dont live in a vacuum, and the more competent any of us are as individuals, the more beneficial we will be to our personal spheres

Entropist wrote: I say Jediism is about developing others,


i dont know exactly what you mean when you say that, so i cannot agree or disagree

it might be that i do basically agree (though i would word it quite differently) but it might be that there are all kinds of unpleasant things lurking beneath the surface of this comment

Entropist wrote: The application of doing pushups is to increase fitness in the upper body for displacement of other objects or oneself. Eating broccoli has application to spread out nutritional diversity for sustainability. Learning to paint has application in protecting surfaces or communication.


i think youre looking at it with too high of a resolution but im going to move on

Entropist wrote: All three examples demonstrate the ability to perform feats - applications.


imo a jedi pursues personal excellence in whatever areas s/he is drawn to

Entropist wrote: We need trials to test if our means and practices are true and justified.


first, what exactly do you have in mind?

specifically, what trials and what tests?

as for my own opinion
our personal lives ARE our trials - imo the first major trial is to have gotten ones life in order - are you self sufficient? capable? are you taking care of others or are you being taken care of? what do you do for a living - is it meaningful to you? is it what you really believe you SHOULD be doing? ... (the "you" here is a general "you" and these are not questions i am posing to you personally)

and theres some more, but the general idea is that we are tested by our own lives and circumstances, and in all honesty, someone who hasnt passed these tests already is probably not the best candidate to decide what tests or trials should be administered to whom, and some who has, probably knows better than to make rash demands and is likely beyond being "tested" - or at least the tests that would be appropriate at that point would have to be well considered and tailored to the individual

but again i dont know what you have in mind when you say "tests and trials" so i cant say to what extent i agree or disagree

Entropist wrote: Unfortunately I have seen more 'telling and enforcing' other people what being a Jedi means, and devaluing others by saying "no you're not a Jedi".


do you mean in this thread or at totjo in general?
have you ever posted here before, maybe by another screen name?
or are you talking about the broader online jedi community?
or even are you talking about me personally?
cause that might be true too, depending on how you interpret things ive said before

People are complicated.
Last edit: 21 Dec 2015 17:01 by OB1Shinobi.
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27 Dec 2015 13:48 - 27 Dec 2015 13:52 #216445 by Entropist

Entropist wrote: But being helpful to others is necessary to test how helpful we were to ourselves, would you agree?


OB1Shinobi wrote: not with this wording - youre way too vague here

if i want to test something, first i define precisely what i want to test



what limits how helpful we are to others if it's not how helpful we are to ourselves? how can we ascertain how good we are in our skill unless we help others with that skill. there's a need to avoid self-justifying ourselves and others with self-assertion and self-opinion by being humble to question ourselves and putting out reasoning of the matter at hand

OB1Shinobi wrote: again, specifics are important

but GENERALLY, we dont live in a vacuum, and the more competent any of us are as individuals, the more beneficial we will be to our personal spheres



thanks for agreeing

Entropist wrote: I say Jediism is about developing others,


OB1Shinobi wrote: i dont know exactly what you mean when you say that, so i cannot agree or disagree

it might be that i do basically agree (though i would word it quite differently) but it might be that there are all kinds of unpleasant things lurking beneath the surface of this comment



clear prejudice demonstrated here

Entropist wrote: The application of doing pushups is to increase fitness in the upper body for displacement of other objects or oneself. Eating broccoli has application to spread out nutritional diversity for sustainability. Learning to paint has application in protecting surfaces or communication.

OB1Shinobi wrote: i think youre looking at it with too high of a resolution but im going to move on



just demonstrating using the examples you put before the matter to fairly prove the point for concedence


Entropist wrote: All three examples demonstrate the ability to perform feats - applications.

OB1Shinobi wrote: imo a jedi pursues personal excellence in whatever areas s/he is drawn to



thanks again

Entropist wrote: We need trials to test if our means and practices are true and justified.

OB1Shinobi wrote: first, what exactly do you have in mind?

specifically, what trials and what tests?

as for my own opinion
our personal lives ARE our trials - imo the first major trial is to have gotten ones life in order - are you self sufficient? capable? are you taking care of others or are you being taken care of? what do you do for a living - is it meaningful to you? is it what you really believe you SHOULD be doing? ... (the "you" here is a general "you" and these are not questions i am posing to you personally)



there's a chapter in the Jedi path explaining Jedi trials. and do you not think tests are necessary to ensure practice and reality?

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Last edit: 27 Dec 2015 13:52 by Entropist.

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