Forum Access Changes

I think it also illustrates that this communication should happen before something drastic happens. As the first several pages were not condusive because of it.

Like, a warning of implementation or some such.

Two things. One not obvious and one that should have been.

The only Members can post area idea came about because a number of Members asked for it. But they asked for it through PM's or Skype or whatever so it's not something that shows up in the forum. For various reasons they want to be able to post particular topics where only Members can reply. This hardly seals off a topic since someone can start the same one in the open area. It will be interesting to see how this plays out since we'll all be able to see it.

The proposed changes should have been announced before implementation for public comment. That's so obvious nobody thought of it. Lesson learned.

Proteus wrote:

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Proteus wrote: Akkarin announced the newest update in these changes a couple pages back. It hasn't received much attention interestingly.

Here it is again: http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/114-Announcements/108282-access-forum-changes-refined

I'm just taking a guess...but the reason why its not receiving attention is because the "Flow" is here. Im sure all of us has already read it though. Thank you *bows*

I only mention it because the flow here has not really mentioned it. Some are still rather hung up on what they did not like about this threads OP.

It was seen, and appreciated. But personally it was almost 3am here and I'd said more than enough on this topic. As has been pointed out already, the continuing posts are discussing other concerns that the experience has raised.

But perhaps its time to move those concerns elsewhere and present them a little more coolly Becoming "unglued" wont help :whistle:

Jestor wrote: Whas up slick...

Before the Temple was this grand deal you see before you, it was slow, and changes affected a minor few...

So, when we made changes, few cared or raised a ruckus...

By having more knights available, we are trying to shift some of the power from council, and a select few, to them, with council running the day to day, and implementation of the Knights and their decisions...

Council are knights as well, but our voices are no louder, or shouldnt be, lol... Maybe mine, but I am a loud mouth, lol...

So, unintentionally, we may open a can of worms from time to time, as things change...

When I was a guest, it was heavily implied my opinion didn't count because I wasn't a member. When I was a member, it was heavily implied my voice didn't count because I wasn't an initiate. When I was an initiate, it was heavily implied my opinion wasn't noteworthy because I wasn't an apprentice. I'm just getting tired of the goalposts being moved on me. I'm glad you're working backward, from the top-down, to help fix that, but it's still really frustrating in the meantime.

Proteus wrote: Akkarin announced the newest update in these changes a couple pages back. It hasn't received much attention interestingly.

Here it is again: http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/114-Announcements/108282-access-forum-changes-refined

We saw. Most of us went to read. Doesn't change the discussion going on here, since we've moved beyond the "changes" and gone to the manner in which they're decided and implemented.

Revan Falton wrote: That is strange. Changes were made, and implemented and posted about. Obviously they have no qualms with the new changes, yet the angry mob is still here with their torches and pitch forks, fussing over the old changes.

I'm kind of disappointed in the fact that (even though our language may at times be coarse) some of us are trying to have a real, genuine discussion here, and some of us are being so disrespectfully dismissive. What makes it worse is the fact that both camps are spread throughout the membership--not just at lower or higher levels, but both extremes have shown up in both camps. I'm not even mad. I'm disappointed in the community right now.

steamboat28 wrote: When I was a guest, it was heavily implied my opinion didn't count because I wasn't a member. When I was a member, it was heavily implied my voice didn't count because I wasn't an initiate. When I was an initiate, it was heavily implied my opinion wasn't noteworthy because I wasn't an apprentice.

Say what!? I'll assume you've adjust your interpretation based on the obvious differences to involvement which naturally increases with something like rank before saying something like that in public, Wow, that is quite an accusation and sounds terrible. Have you taken this up with anyone, Council, Mods, Clergy etc?

steamboat28 wrote:

Jestor wrote: Whas up slick...

Before the Temple was this grand deal you see before you, it was slow, and changes affected a minor few...

So, when we made changes, few cared or raised a ruckus...

By having more knights available, we are trying to shift some of the power from council, and a select few, to them, with council running the day to day, and implementation of the Knights and their decisions...

Council are knights as well, but our voices are no louder, or shouldnt be, lol... Maybe mine, but I am a loud mouth, lol...

So, unintentionally, we may open a can of worms from time to time, as things change...

When I was a guest, it was heavily implied my opinion didn't count because I wasn't a member. When I was a member, it was heavily implied my voice didn't count because I wasn't an initiate. When I was an initiate, it was heavily implied my opinion wasn't noteworthy because I wasn't an apprentice. I'm just getting tired of the goalposts being moved on me. I'm glad you're working backward, from the top-down, to help fix that, but it's still really frustrating in the meantime.

Proteus wrote: Akkarin announced the newest update in these changes a couple pages back. It hasn't received much attention interestingly.

Here it is again: http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/114-Announcements/108282-access-forum-changes-refined

We saw. Most of us went to read. Doesn't change the discussion going on here, since we've moved beyond the "changes" and gone to the manner in which they're decided and implemented.

Revan Falton wrote: That is strange. Changes were made, and implemented and posted about. Obviously they have no qualms with the new changes, yet the angry mob is still here with their torches and pitch forks, fussing over the old changes.

I'm kind of disappointed in the fact that (even though our language may at times be coarse) some of us are trying to have a real, genuine discussion here, and some of us are being so disrespectfully dismissive. What makes it worse is the fact that both camps are spread throughout the membership--not just at lower or higher levels, but both extremes have shown up in both camps. I'm not even mad. I'm disappointed in the community right now.

It's very easy for somebody to say or feel they were dismissed because they did not get what they wanted right away, or they received a response that they did not want. It is also very easy to derive implications from situations and discussions that disappoint you when you let someone else's rank get in the way of you and them. Lastly, while the member base here is the heart of the community, they are not the council. If they were, threads such as this one would be literal over-the-cliff argumentative chaos at all times, with continuously conflicting opinions and demands being thrown around, and few of them being satisfied because of a lack of ability to please them all. That is why there are tighter procedures which start at the level of council and work their way down. As for the changes with the forums, requests were sent to council by complaining members, so they were not left out or dismissed - literally the opposite.

Feel free to be dissapointed all you would like. Throw a temper tantrum too if you wish. While you do, we will still be here getting things done to improve matters just as we always have. This does not entail dismissing anybody, however those who scream and cry because everything did not happen the way they demanded will only be making things harder on themselves to be thoroughly considered. Going into threads protesting that the knights and council are all dismissive has no constructive basis and only contributes to the already existing conflicts that we are trying to settle.

Feel free to be dissapointed all you would like. Throw a temper tantrum too if you wish.

I am only going to point out that reducing peoples concerns and opinions, etc to temper tantrums, dissapointment, bitching,etc, is a form of dismissal.

Its an active dismissal and a reduction of the value of ones opinions.

Thats how politicians work.

Thats not befitting Jedi

Stop me if im wrong but i see this as trying to keep order and miss hurts from happening is all. Ive noticed some people just run in and complain and insult and leave and leave the rest of the temple ruffled. I agree with the leaders on this one in regards to keeping the Temple safe and free from...whats the word...any body???.... riff raft, chaff... things from getting in. It does happen and ive seen it. If there is no threat there would not be a need but there seems to be a need ...am i right? so ... Take action and put in place what is needed and as the council sees as a help. Im for suport of my Temple all ways. And yes i would also vote for the same if it came to it.
Carlos

Feel free to be dissapointed all you would like. Throw a temper tantrum too if you wish. While you do, we will still be here getting things done to improve matters just as we always have. This does not entail dismissing anybody, however those who scream and cry because everything did not happen the way they demanded will only be making things harder on themselves to be thoroughly considered. Going into threads protesting that the knights and council are all dismissive has no constructive basis and only contributes to the already existing conflicts that we are trying to settle.

Seems strongly worded, maybe out of frustration?

I'm not happy about this anymore now than I was when it first came out but I'm letting go of it. Maybe some/most of us should let this thread rest, take some time for the water to settle down and the air to clear? Peace

Unsticky this thread, and link to newer thread....

Newer thread - http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/114-Announcements/108282-access-forum-changes-refined