Human Nature

Special thanks goes out to Innocence lost for helping me right this post and views on human nature and her wisdom on this subject.



I was talking with a friend about this subject and i noticed how flawed humans are. If you ever notice humans contradict everything we are. Like we are intelligent yet we are dumb. We have knowledge yet we are ignorant. the thing about human nature is that it is ever changing and never changing, A person can change their mind in an instant for better or worse just because they want to or are influenced. We say we are individuals yet we follow people who look like what we want t be. in this day and age it seems we have little control over what goes on in our own minds let alone in the world around us, and because of this we feel the need to grab hold of what ever we can, grab hold of anything and never let go, this is one of the things we as Jedi are trying to fight against, which would be attachment, one of the biggest flaws in human nature, because of attachment to anything and everything wars have been fought and lives lost over someone just not wanting to let go or admit they are wrong, smart indeed, we could never be so smart as the day we let go of what it is that drives us all. We may have evolved but we only use 10% of our brain so what good is evolving if we don't use what we're given. What do all of you think about human nature?

Kreia

Thanks for the help Innocence lost

I would like to add a bit to this. There is great potential in us all for being human, because we are not so restricted we need to be, we create beautiful artwork, we give kind words and we are always amazing eachother. I would like to state that although we can be very dreadful creatures, we (as creatures of change) can be great as well. It is sad though that when we, kreia and I, think of human nature, this is the first place we come to. I understand fully when talking to her and others in this site that attatchment could possibly the cause of all things wrong with us, which is why we must let it go for all out sake.

IMO of course.

Is it really so wrong that human beings are so contradictorary? Isn`t it out of the tension between love and hate, knowledge and ingnorance, hope and despair .... that the great poems, the great Shakespear and novels have developed? May be, without, it might be a better world, but there is certainly a lot of beauty here too. Look at the rollercoaster, it is in the action of being taken up after shooting down that the adrenalin kick comes, that the fun starts. What I`m trying to say is that the tensions caused by contradiction are a necessary condition for new things. May be this is an order which lies beyond the comprehension of our 10% brains? Whether this is good or not I think is difficult for anyone without the necessary foresight to evaluate. Thats where religions, beliefs, philosophies and opinions usually step in.

In any case this world is as it is and there remains a lot for us to do.

Human beings are persons with:

- basic needs (e.g. food, shelter)

- Safety needs (physical safety, protective clothing, employment, health)

- Social needs (love, belonging, communication)

- Esteem needs (respect, promotion, competence, usefulness)

- Self-actualisation (success, challenge, power)

- experiences

- hopes, desires, beliefs

- interests, likes and dislikes

.......

If you consider these as a combonation in the light of a persons behaviour maybe their reaction might not seem so contradictorary.

Hey Hey, Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. It can get much more complex than that too.

...but not more than it needs to...

...people who act outside the norm would be described as being \"verückt\" (mad, crazy) not because they are insane but because they have been moved (-rückt) to the side (ver-). So you could say that those who are allegedly mad only have a diffent position in life.

Sorry \"verrückt\" is a German word. I like to use this complex language to explain terms.

I agree that it is the complexity of human nature that is specific to the \"human\" animal and shapes us (good or bad). Unfortunately history has a way of highlighting the bad, just look at the newspaper, only bad news there...

However, the good side is always there. And how would we know darkness if we could not see the light (or the other way around for a Sith...).

As the Tao says: if we know beauty, we know ugly.

Two sides of the same coin.

I believe the contradictory nature of humans is a direct reflection of the contradictory nature of the universe as a whole. A flux of creation and destruction that is ever present and cyclical in nature. To be human is to be flawed and flaws (and our struggles against them) is what defines us as a species. Is it that important to constantly define ourselves? Should we let go of everything that drives us? That would include letting go of the need to rectify flaws, actual or self-perceived. The drive and fight to rectify flaws is in itself an attachment to a future unrealized self in most people. So should we avoid attachment and in hence contradict our very nature and the way that the universe, the force as set our nature (those things Jon listed)? Or should we embrace attachment and the hardships that come when we lose those things? IMHO though I think the greatest attachment that comes with human nature is the attachment to stability. Granted I don't know the answers to any of these question, I am just the fool.

That being said, I will accept the human flaws, attachments, the crest and the trough because without all of those things we wouldn't have the beautiful things made by our species. The marvelous art, the poems of love gained and lost, the tragic plays, the uplifting stories, ect. These, in my eyes, are the testaments to human nature and the human condition.

I believe that one of our greatest attachments, and the one that is hardest to remove, is our attachment to these bodies and this world, to our very lives. But the problem with attachment is, everything will end. If you are attached, when something or someone ends, you will be left with a hole, unless you begin to tackle your attachment as soon as you know it is leaving you. This is the thing thoug, everything is leaving you/us all. So why have an attachment when all things are but only temperary. The sun itself, will not last forever and yet each one of us is attached to it, unconsciously we hope and \"know\" it will shine down on us each day of our lives, clouds or not. The person you love and hold so dearly will of course be gone, before or after you.

I have a cat figurine, i told my Aunt Shiela the other day that there is only one thing that i would try to save if a fire broke out in our house, and besides the cats, i would grab that cat figurine. I have a very strong attachment to it, i know i do, i am well aware of it. It is about 6 inches tall, and made of iron wood. The reason i am so attached to it is because when i look at it, it reminds me of my deseased cat Samantha, she was as close as a sister to me since i can remember and she past away back in '99. I cried, I don't think i cried more for anyone before or since. But i have attached her memory to this figurine, I don't entirely know why but i have. I am possessive over it. It is \"MINE\" and noone elses. I know i can get past this obsession with this object, in truth i don't feel it a healthy \"relationship,\" myself and this figurine have. But it is just another form of attachment, i know if i lost it or it got broke right now, I would go crazy, (if you believe in Zodiac signs, i am a taurus and we are known for being possessive, even to the point of believe we own people, though i have gotten past much of it) I honestly don't know entirely what i would do but it would definately go against all things this place and my new chosen paths are leading me.

So you see, attachments are not so good, people will do anything to keep them, we will do what we might regret if the object or person is removed from our lives. Attachment, IMO, can only lead to heart ache and downfall.

I would say that the attachments we carry for our bodies and our lives is superficial at best. This can be seen in how some of us misuse our bodies and submit them to rigorous tests of chemical products. Mostly though I see the lack of attachment to our lives as very few actually spend time living and spend much more time going through the motions, trying to make it to some unseen day in the future were our lives well be better than our current situation. IMO the problem the species has with death is not directly related to our lives but our \"need\" and attachment to stability. Death definitely ranks up there as one of the most change filled events.This goes hand in hand with most peoples need to be in total control of their lives, change is fine if it is you that is initiating it. What happens though when it happens outside of your grasp when your pet or a loved one dies, you lose your job or your spouse leaves you? Many people describe the feeling of being lost, alienated, directionless amid other useful adjectives; the calm seas have given way to the crashing waves and tormenting winds of a raging storm, the light from the lighthouse that was ones future has become obscured and one becomes afraid that they will be dashed upon the rocks or lost at sea. You in essence have to become the pioneer of your own future, every new day a new discovery. Now one can use that to say that attachments to those things have cause this heartache, have caused the fall. But I will ask, are you really attached to those individual things (your loved one, pet, job, spouse) or are you attached to what they give you, stability? Knowing that every morning you will wake up and roll over to see the face of the one you love, get up to get ready and your pet is there, get in the car and go to work that you are used to, and come home to all those things go to sleep knowing those things are there and wake up to it all over again. I know...run on sentence. A lot of us take those things for granted, get comfortable in love and life, always looking forward to the future.

And I agree, everything ends, to a degree because in this life where does on thing end and the other begin? But forsake of the discussion I have to say that the way we as humans normally look at it, yes everything ends. One day you will roll over and there will be no face to look upon and you will get up and no pet to be found and you will just sit because there is nowhere to go. One might wonder, is this my bed, is this my house...is this my life but hey everything ends. So to will the heartache and the fall, and during your pioneering you will find yourself again.

As far as attachment and whether they are good or bad, I would say look to the Irish wake. A loved one has passed on, and most everyone that attends was attached to this person one way or another but all in all this is a rather joyous occasion (at least compared to a lot of funerals). It is a celebration of that person, their life and everything they brought to each attendees life.

Well that is all said, and I too have a story of attachment, and that which I was attached to is for this moment gone. Really I am not very comfortable picking at fresh wounds right now. But I will say that I have been feeling the heartache and I am in the fall right now. I am trying to grab hold of something to stop the fall and sometimes I do, sometimes I am not so successful. The fall will eventually stop and I will dust myself off, for what else is a fall for. And I will set sail again and know sure well that there is another storm brewing somewhere on the horizon but hey the heartache hurts but the joy far outweighs it.

Mando'ade (Jason the fool)

That is very well put, and when someone dies or something is gone i do feel sad...
I was going to try to combine our two percpectives or try to debate what you have put but i believe i must take a step back. I began to remember a man who was more like a father to me then my own that past on just a few short months ago, and i realized, you are right. I miss him, but when i was thinking of being in the hospital, i wasn't thinking of him dieing, and we weren't thinking and and crying because of the suffering he was going threw. We were thinking of the fact he was not going to be there anymore. I wouldn't be able to go to his house and play GURPS, Star Wars, or even D&D if we ever were going to get around to it. I wouldbn't be able to talk to him from everything from Star Wars, Religion, Wrestling, to my own life, love, and the universe in general. I must say, I do miss him, and i do now and did then feel attached to him, but was it the occurances we shared between us that became the real attachments?