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Love Thy Nieghbor
12 Nov 2024 13:10 - 12 Nov 2024 13:13 #378149
by Vulpecula
Love Thy Nieghbor was created by Vulpecula
No one is either good nor evil. No one is either a safe person nor an unsafe person. For anyone you can conceive of, from the saintliest of altruists to the most sniveling machiavelian souls, all that they are is merely a product of the feedback loop between the incentive structure of their material conditions and the decisions they make in navigating that incentive structure. The decisions they make are shaped by the path they have charted through the incentive structure, not by some intangible metaphysical quality of moral essentialism.
In the wake of this election, there's a sentiment among progressives that when the material conditions of the people who voted for Trump are further worsened by his stated political goals, they will finally see the error of their ways, swiftly rejecting Trump, the GOP, and conservative ideology. This is demonstrably naïve, not only does it ignore the results of Trumps last presidency, it ignores all of history that came before that as well. People are not deradicalized when their material conditions are worsened, full stop. You can try to talk your way around that all you want but I assure you your enlightened explanation for why disenfranchised people getting more disenfranchised will surely make them more rational political actors does not stand up to the scrutiny of recorded human history.
The thing that people who have deradicalized from MAGA have been screaming for years to deaf ears is that very few MAGA heads understand, believe, or even fully process the endless wave of culture war bs that they are flooded with. Instead, they choose to drown in that flood because it is one of the easiest ways to find community in a world increasingly willing to brand people who experience bouts of reactionary sentiments as a consequence of the material conditions fundamentally evil and unsafe people.
If you are uncomfortable with the way our country feels right now (surveys show that this sentiment is felt ubiquitously regardless of people's politics), you need to stop thinking with a team sports mentality. Don't let people misquote the Paradox of Tolerance at you to get you to abandon the empathy you should be fostering towards your neighbors. Do not get swept up the cycle of anger and hate that culture war media narratives are meant to chain us to. Break bread with your neighbors, put the work into getting them to trust you so that you can eventually support eachother as part of a community. At the end of the day, people are always going to be more willing to trust, love, and defend their neighbors than they will be to listen to suits.
You must never lose hope in a better world, you must never lose faith in your neighbors. No matter how hard the world tries to stop you, no matter how many people tell you your only responsibility is survival, you must choose love. The only way out of this is community, no one's material conditions will be improved until we as a nation stand together
In the wake of this election, there's a sentiment among progressives that when the material conditions of the people who voted for Trump are further worsened by his stated political goals, they will finally see the error of their ways, swiftly rejecting Trump, the GOP, and conservative ideology. This is demonstrably naïve, not only does it ignore the results of Trumps last presidency, it ignores all of history that came before that as well. People are not deradicalized when their material conditions are worsened, full stop. You can try to talk your way around that all you want but I assure you your enlightened explanation for why disenfranchised people getting more disenfranchised will surely make them more rational political actors does not stand up to the scrutiny of recorded human history.
The thing that people who have deradicalized from MAGA have been screaming for years to deaf ears is that very few MAGA heads understand, believe, or even fully process the endless wave of culture war bs that they are flooded with. Instead, they choose to drown in that flood because it is one of the easiest ways to find community in a world increasingly willing to brand people who experience bouts of reactionary sentiments as a consequence of the material conditions fundamentally evil and unsafe people.
If you are uncomfortable with the way our country feels right now (surveys show that this sentiment is felt ubiquitously regardless of people's politics), you need to stop thinking with a team sports mentality. Don't let people misquote the Paradox of Tolerance at you to get you to abandon the empathy you should be fostering towards your neighbors. Do not get swept up the cycle of anger and hate that culture war media narratives are meant to chain us to. Break bread with your neighbors, put the work into getting them to trust you so that you can eventually support eachother as part of a community. At the end of the day, people are always going to be more willing to trust, love, and defend their neighbors than they will be to listen to suits.
You must never lose hope in a better world, you must never lose faith in your neighbors. No matter how hard the world tries to stop you, no matter how many people tell you your only responsibility is survival, you must choose love. The only way out of this is community, no one's material conditions will be improved until we as a nation stand together
Last edit: 12 Nov 2024 13:13 by Vulpecula. Reason: Spelling error
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12 Nov 2024 15:46 #378151
by Carlos.Martinez3
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Love Thy Nieghbor
Thank you for sharing this. Do remember when posting and sharing, we as a Temple and Order are international so the ideas we express can very easily be skewed by our location, availability and understanding.
The zeal to want to love everyone is big. There is a typical feeling of some level of good that is needed to be done to one another. Everyone I have met says this, but it is rare anyone know specifics. One of the things we do here is take some time to understand our thoughts, feeling and will. We often judge each other. We are taught to do this from the beginning. This is one thing I had to unlearn. This is still something I am unlearning. How do we stop judging one another or even thinking we have the ability to tell someone else anything? Do we have an elixir to share or is it just another recipe for common bread? The zeal and pride that comes with learning new things in another thing I had to learn to curb. Where does " LOVE EVERYONE" come from? Where did you learn it from? One of the things I would love to teach the world is that "everyone is hurt." My mentor told me this at such a panicle time in my life, it has allowed me to see so much more than "love thy neighbor." Fair warning, if you begin to study and ask and reflect, you will find things out. They may not be the things you want but you will find things out. Seek and you shall find still exist. Where do you think your own "Love thy neighbor" will take you? Seems to be a good place to start. What do you think?
The zeal to want to love everyone is big. There is a typical feeling of some level of good that is needed to be done to one another. Everyone I have met says this, but it is rare anyone know specifics. One of the things we do here is take some time to understand our thoughts, feeling and will. We often judge each other. We are taught to do this from the beginning. This is one thing I had to unlearn. This is still something I am unlearning. How do we stop judging one another or even thinking we have the ability to tell someone else anything? Do we have an elixir to share or is it just another recipe for common bread? The zeal and pride that comes with learning new things in another thing I had to learn to curb. Where does " LOVE EVERYONE" come from? Where did you learn it from? One of the things I would love to teach the world is that "everyone is hurt." My mentor told me this at such a panicle time in my life, it has allowed me to see so much more than "love thy neighbor." Fair warning, if you begin to study and ask and reflect, you will find things out. They may not be the things you want but you will find things out. Seek and you shall find still exist. Where do you think your own "Love thy neighbor" will take you? Seems to be a good place to start. What do you think?
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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12 Nov 2024 17:14 - 12 Nov 2024 17:16 #378152
by Vulpecula
Replied by Vulpecula on topic Love Thy Nieghbor
I think that it is very hard to act on such a grand position as loving everyone, and often trying to process how exactly one would go about doing that leads people back to the same well of reactionary sentiment they were trying to escape. I think the only thing we can reasonably be expected to do, the only thing that has any real staying power, is to love the people in our direct vicinity: our neighbors, our family, our coworkers, and our greater local community. If we fight to support and build community for the people who surround us regardless of their beliefs, if we do not alienate our peers but instead turn the other cheek and open up our arms to them, I think people will find it easier and easier to span the partisan divide and stand with their community in solidarity. I think if any of us want to see a better world, it's our responsibility to listen to what the people in our community are struggling with and organize to alleviate those material concerns as best we are able to as a community. I think the most dangerous thing we can do is to fracture ourselves into more and more niche social circles of people who agree with us about the world but aren't in our local community. The people who can do the most to help us, the people we can do the most to help, they are here, at home. Most other things are just some level of posturing
Last edit: 12 Nov 2024 17:16 by Vulpecula. Reason: Grammar issue
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13 Nov 2024 12:05 - 13 Nov 2024 12:06 #378153
by Wescli Wardest
Replied by Wescli Wardest on topic Love Thy Nieghbor
It is always interesting to see how people’s political ideas shape their view of the world and the people around them. Individuals on both sides of the isle believe they are right and that there is something fundamentally wrong with people on their opposing side.
I am always amazed how people can be so convinced that their ideology is the right one and there is no need to even try to understand other viewpoints. Or, attempting to understand other viewpoints is reduced to theorizing amongst peers and not having a genuine conversation with those they oppose.
The Jedi were a religious order which, unlike most of the universe, believed in the Force. The members of the order strove to maintain peace though neutrality and service. They were not political advocates which in part is why they were so effective at negotiations. The Force is not left or right, progressive or conservative. The Force is. And all things are a part of the Force as the Force is in all things… even the things we disagree with.
Remember, Dooku was a “political idealist.” There are good lessons to be taken from fiction.
Perhaps our focus should be on personal growth, understanding and strengthening our connection to the Force.
I am always amazed how people can be so convinced that their ideology is the right one and there is no need to even try to understand other viewpoints. Or, attempting to understand other viewpoints is reduced to theorizing amongst peers and not having a genuine conversation with those they oppose.
The Jedi were a religious order which, unlike most of the universe, believed in the Force. The members of the order strove to maintain peace though neutrality and service. They were not political advocates which in part is why they were so effective at negotiations. The Force is not left or right, progressive or conservative. The Force is. And all things are a part of the Force as the Force is in all things… even the things we disagree with.
Remember, Dooku was a “political idealist.” There are good lessons to be taken from fiction.
Perhaps our focus should be on personal growth, understanding and strengthening our connection to the Force.
Monastic Order of Knights
Last edit: 13 Nov 2024 12:06 by Wescli Wardest.
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13 Nov 2024 15:45 #378154
by Carlos.Martinez3
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Love Thy Nieghbor
Here is something to think about. A cautionary tale is a story that gives a warning. What warning are the Star Wars epics giving us on politics? What was the end result? No matter how hard they tried or what they did, IT BLINDED THEM. I would say that is a pretty clear warning in the entire sage, that and you want to be hugged and befriended by a Wookie. Everyone knows that. If I have learned anything from Star Wars, one thing is that politics can be blinding. Blind hate is blind hate no matter its intention. Doing anything blindly can be more than dangerous, it can become menacing. This is another theme in many sagas. Even loving others? Even loving others.
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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14 Nov 2024 12:58 #378157
by Wescli Wardest
Replied by Wescli Wardest on topic Love Thy Nieghbor
I think it would be an interesting exercise to debate rather it was "good" or "bad" that the Jedi were blinded to the change in the political environment.
An argument could be made that the Jedi, even though they were a religious order, were used as tools to keep the peace and their assumed neutrality was part of what gave them their strength. It could also be argued that in order to maintain the peace, as enforcers, ensuring the continuation of the status quo by defeating the political change should have been part of their mandate.
I would argue that a religious should not be involved in politics. My reasoning is tat no matter how "good" a religious order is, politics is a direct reflection of the populace. If that culture is self defeating then becoming irrelevant or being replaced by another is part of the natural order of the universe. And that the change in cultural environment is an opportunity for the order to have its beliefs challenged and find its own short comings. I believe this because we are only human and flawed. So, nothing created by us can be perfect. It can be good, but never complete. I believe the macro is reflected in the micro and vice versa. As our path as Jedi is one of continual growth so should our belief system and religion. The pillars which make a thing what it is should remain but what message can be gathered from those foundations needs to be applicable to the individual in their current time.
Ok, enough of going off on a tangent for me.
An argument could be made that the Jedi, even though they were a religious order, were used as tools to keep the peace and their assumed neutrality was part of what gave them their strength. It could also be argued that in order to maintain the peace, as enforcers, ensuring the continuation of the status quo by defeating the political change should have been part of their mandate.
I would argue that a religious should not be involved in politics. My reasoning is tat no matter how "good" a religious order is, politics is a direct reflection of the populace. If that culture is self defeating then becoming irrelevant or being replaced by another is part of the natural order of the universe. And that the change in cultural environment is an opportunity for the order to have its beliefs challenged and find its own short comings. I believe this because we are only human and flawed. So, nothing created by us can be perfect. It can be good, but never complete. I believe the macro is reflected in the micro and vice versa. As our path as Jedi is one of continual growth so should our belief system and religion. The pillars which make a thing what it is should remain but what message can be gathered from those foundations needs to be applicable to the individual in their current time.
Ok, enough of going off on a tangent for me.
Monastic Order of Knights
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