Who here considers themselves red pilled?

Whyte Horse wrote:

River wrote: I try to see things as they really are. I think sometimes I get close. But who knows, maybe it's just another layer of ego-driven delusion. I'm not sure a human can ever really be free of those.

I think we can. Emotional detachment is possible. I believe it's a foundational principle in Buddhism.

I'm also not sure I believe that emotional attachment is the only thing standing between humans and seeing objective truth

The concept of being redpilled is a little arrogant in my opinion. As though there is an achievable objective reality that most "sheeple" can't access.
It makes sense to me to discuss an emergent relationship between myself and an external reality.

As a tangent, in practice most people who describe themselves as redpilled are talking about this contextually related to conspiracy theories; so I have a bad taste in my mouth for this phrase.

What Rex said ! I like to add that so really see totally about the Humans ways, society and system, to understand it all you would have to know most of what happened the last few million years of our evolution, so far we can only make guesses. Why we developed such a fear of death, the concept of god, we have only semi educated theories. So none of us really see the complete story, to come back to Allan Watts s cat.

Rex wrote: The concept of being redpilled is a little arrogant in my opinion. As though there is an achievable objective reality that most "sheeple" can't access.
It makes sense to me to discuss an emergent relationship between myself and an external reality.

As a tangent, in practice most people who describe themselves as redpilled are talking about this contextually related to conspiracy theories; so I have a bad taste in my mouth for this phrase.

I don't think people can't access objective truth. Especially in this day and age. I suppose red pill gets abused by people who want it to mean something it's not, hence why I defined it the way I did.

Vincent Causse wrote: What Rex said ! I like to add that so really see totally about the Humans ways, society and system, to understand it all you would have to know most of what happened the last few million years of our evolution, so far we can only make guesses. Why we developed such a fear of death, the concept of god, we have only semi educated theories. So none of us really see the complete story, to come back to Allan Watts s cat.

Yes but I come back to Asimov's Psycho-history. Evolutionary psychology is very similar. We actually know a lot about why we evolved certain traits. We can make broad generalizations about our behaviour based on our evolved traits. Like how we developed emotions from base instincts of reward(joy), aversion(sadness), and stress. I forget the exact terminology but it's out there in research.

That being said, most people don't have 4hrs to go and take on a research project to find the objective truth of some phenomenon in their lives. So they rely on FOX news or whatever to do all that for them and serve it up in a 30 minute broadcast. Over time this has become a very distorted stream of information affecting people and what they view as the objective truth.

Yea in a way probably. Not as a reactionary resistance but rather as a free agent to move between both to serve my and mines needs. I probably swallowed both pills....and view them as both merely other domains where mastery (or attempts at) can be projected into.

For example, whenever I go bush for a day or more, and upon returning to civilization, I am struck by it's feeling of oddness... in comparison. When prior it had been normal. Interestingly I don't find it happening going out bush, that seems normal as well. But upon return to the built up human environment, a distinct oddness pervades for the day. That could be a good example of freeing oneself from the social construct of civilization as it stands at that time and place? So much looks silly and ugly unfortunately, probably because it's not new and so people don't bother noticing it anymore... such that while when it was new it was an advancement, now its just the fabric (or indeed matrix) which new society lives in and builds upon.

My middle ground in this context is my home, which I view as a primitive 'vehicle'.... a habitat to whatever sillyness might ensure outside, be it one way back to nature or the other to complex society, or rapid change! The space ship analogy is comfortable for me, since homes need maintenance, and I have a garage for my smaller more mobile vehicle :S It's just the main ship is a house and its stuck on the ground!!!! If one were an astronaut in Space for example, then their 'ship' would be their lifeboat, a habitat which had a huge importance to their continued existence... and I like the extreme analogy of it personally since I guess it relates to my emptiness meditations... Space is deep lol.

Another explanation is 'swallowing the ideology' of communism

Adder wrote: Yea in a way probably. Not as a reactionary resistance but rather as a free agent to move between both to serve my and mines needs. I probably swallowed both pills....and view them as both merely other domains where mastery (or attempts at) can be projected into.

For example, whenever I go bush for a day or more, and upon returning to civilization, I am struck by it's feeling of oddness... in comparison. When prior it had been normal. Interestingly I don't find it happening going out bush, that seems normal as well. But upon return to the built up human environment, a distinct oddness pervades for the day. That could be a good example of freeing oneself from the social construct of civilization as it stands at that time and place? So much looks silly and ugly unfortunately, probably because it's not new and so people don't bother noticing it anymore... such that while when it was new it was an advancement, now its just the fabric (or indeed matrix) which new society lives in and builds upon.

My middle ground in this context is my home, which I view as a primitive 'vehicle'.... a habitat to whatever sillyness might ensure outside, be it one way back to nature or the other to complex society, or rapid change! The space ship analogy is comfortable for me, since homes need maintenance, and I have a garage for my smaller more mobile vehicle :S It's just the main ship is a house and its stuck on the ground!!!! If one were an astronaut in Space for example, then their 'ship' would be their lifeboat, a habitat which had a huge importance to their continued existence... and I like the extreme analogy of it personally since I guess it relates to my emptiness meditations... Space is deep lol.

Another explanation is 'swallowing the ideology' of communism

I don't know if I'd call it "going bush" as that might be confused with physical relations with my wife after her not shaving but I can totally relate to the primitive experience that we get from nature vs the artificial experience we get from modern life. One oddity I noticed in Russia around 2000 was how it was built with purpose rather than for profit. So the only thing on the side of a building was the address. There wasn't all this clutter of advertising.

Whyte Horse wrote: I don't think people can't access objective truth. Especially in this day and age.

The mere fact of observing or measuring something affects both the meter and measurand; this principal is true for inanimate metrology setups, how much moreso for people who subconsciously filter our sensory inputs. Technology improves how useful we can make reality, but our fundamental ability to relate to an objective external reality involves experience and a subjectivity which interacts with it. Also all the thing we're saying here are social constructs.

I suppose red pill gets abused by people who want it to mean something it's not, hence why I defined it the way I did.

I brought up the more sinister use of "red pilled" because it's a rather common dog whistle. Remaining agnostic on its relevance here, what little you say follows the same argument structure:
(A.) Many people are in a "fake" reality
(B.) You are not
(C.) Your reality is implicitly better than theirs
(D.) You have yet to explain what is real or fake as of yet

Feel free to moot this with what you think is objectively true/false

I know what you mean in the way that the system has it s tricks to make us blind to the actually simplicity of life. I find that to drop social media and news in general is like to stop taking the drug. People get fed with poisonous ideas from politics , dramas of all sorts, advertisement, they re made to think that they need instead of being content. When you need to say :" i want" , but when you are content you say "thank you" When you need you feel empty when you are content well you feel full. This alone is a red pill in it s self.

Whyte Horse wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: I am currently and on a Self Reflective path. Many are. It does seem that every few years there is a new term or new phrase for the same old things hu? Awaken - Enlightened- Reborn - You name it, there are many ways of saying the same thing.
Out of curiosity was there a moment you have gone through or just in general? I read a book called Freedom from the Known by J. Krishnamurti. It helped me to see things I had not before in ways I had not even thought possible. That was one "red pill" moment for me, and another was when I stopped and unplugged from media. There are many more times in my own path I have realised things and couldn't go back to the same way of thinking. You know you can out "manner" others? What then?
Dare to share?

Yes, it does keep changing names. The oldest I can think of was the Renaissance, then the Scientific Revolution, then the Enlightenment. Much like today's red pill, the people of that era used humanism to study the world. Now the field is exploding with new information coming from DNA, fMRI, and a huge wave of evolutionary psychology studies. Combine that with the information age and there you have it.

I think my moment was when I asked google if there is a real red pill. I won't offend the entire forum by telling where that question leads but let's just say it's a real eye opener about the battle of the sexes. I also asked if there are real Jedi and here we are. I think the recent events involving fake news, propaganda, pandemics, woke culture, polarized politics, etc has just made people search harder and harder for the truth and they end up in interesting places. It's like as if it's forcing a new Renaissance period.

So, if it happens often and almost episodic throughout time- is it new or overdue ? Does it come as such a big shocker?