Am I an Atheist?

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4 years 4 months ago #346228 by Eleven
Am I an Atheist? was created by Eleven
Hello I sat down with a potential believer in jediism and he asked me if Jedi are Atheist? I replied not everyone. Some openly are and some are of other mainstream religions like Christianity but also profess to be believers in The Living Force. Then there are those who aren’t sure and searching.

It got me thinking as I shared my testimony with him,” It’s been awhile since I’ve shared with community my beliefs. And as my beliefs I mean mine not that of anyone else’s. What I believe might not be what you believe and vice versa. I am not here to debate anyone. If anyone else wants to share their Jedi path your welcome without any judgement.

Continuing on...

So, my walk starts that I believe in The Living Force that interconnects with all living and non living things. The Force is not evil nor good but is balanced and when one becomes balanced they’re one with The Force. Good and Evil exist in the hands of the doer. Do I believe in a God? Or gods or goddess,? Yes, I believe in God There is The Force. The Force is his/her hand, his/her feet, his/her response or if you want “it” I do not think The Force has a gender preference. I do believe in the possibility or manifestations of The Force and/or ghosts or spirits. I believe there is no death even after the body dies the spirit lives on of that person and returns to be rejoined to The Living Force. I believe in doing good to others, to be a servant to all. I believe in self help as well in mediation, prayer, essential oils, fasting, martial arts, yoga, reiki and other self healing.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tl1zqH4lsSmKOyCLU9sdOSAUig7Q38QW4okOwSz2V4c/edit
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4 years 4 months ago #346240 by
Replied by on topic Am I an Atheist?
As I understand, an atheist doesn't believe in any supernatural beings or phenomenons at all. Doesn't matter if it is God, or ghosts, or werewolves - an atheist doesn't believe in any of them, he is a true materialist.

So, if you believe in the Force as a kind of supernatural field which connects all the living beings, you are not an atheist. But you don't believe in a personalized human-like God, because as you described - the Force is not good or evil and doesn't have gender.

Jediism can be classified as a pantheistic religion - religion that doesn't have a personalized, anthropomorphic God and, from a particular point of view, unite the concepts of the Nature and the God into one. In classical pantheism, the Universe doesn't have God because it is the God on it's own. The same thing we can see in Jediism - the Force is not God, it's a unpersonalized supernatural part of the Universe and literally is the Universe.

So, Jediism is not atheism but a form of pantheism.

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4 years 4 months ago #346242 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Am I an Atheist?
Personally, I'd say an atheist is anyone who is not a theist. So basically, if you do not consider it an accurate claim that there actually exists a magical anthropomorphic immortal, then you are technically an atheist in that strict definitional sense. Now depending on where you live there may be some more connotation with the label itself. Some believe, as Rainbow demonstrates, that an atheist is obliged to reject all claims of the supernatural, i.e. is a philosophical naturalist. By that definition there is no such thing as an atheistic religion, not even among the ones free of any gods. Some think that atheists have to be sceptics, or even rationalists, some go as far as to think of atheists as cynics or downright nihilists of various forms. The only thing agreed upon by all, though, is that atheists do not actually believe that any gods really exist. It's a generously minimal definition, allowing for quick and efficient categorization of individuals with respect to their position on exactly one question irrespective of what else they think about anything else.
As easy as that approach is, that's also its shortcoming. If someone tells you they are an atheist and all you think at that is that they do not believe in any gods, that tells you precious little about what they do believe and - consequently - how you can expect them to act. The advantage of course is that you don't jump to conclude either of those things until further inquiry, so you run less of a risk to misunderstand their position at the cost of having to ask them instead.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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4 years 4 months ago #346253 by Eleven
Replied by Eleven on topic Am I an Atheist?
And I agree with everything you just said the point behind the story maybe I didn’t put it incorrectly but the person was asking if a Jedi is an atheist because they don’t believe in for example the god of Bible does that make sense? I don’t believe I am an atheist at all but I was explaining my stance to this person as I was explaining to her that was And I agree with everything you just said the point behind the story maybe I didn’t put it in correctly but the person was asking if a Jedi is an atheist because they don’t believe in for example the god of Bible does that make sense? I don’t believe I’m an atheist at all but I was explaining my stance to this person as I was explaining those reading

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tl1zqH4lsSmKOyCLU9sdOSAUig7Q38QW4okOwSz2V4c/edit

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4 years 4 months ago #346255 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Am I an Atheist?
I am an "atheist" as to not go over the heads of most people. Because when most people think of the term "God" its a person.

https://bigthink.com/robby-berman/michio-kaku-believes-in-god-if-not-that-god

The Hebrew word for God though, is "EL or ELOHIM" This word means "power" and isn't necessarily a person. What's another term for "power"?

Force.

See? It's that simple. But most people are used to personal god who they can talk to like an imaginary friend. When people anthropomorphize "power" it simply becomes a reflection of them. And therefore it gets angry, jealous, fights, etc.

But in my view, power isn't a person. It is itself. Anything else is what I'm trying to make it or ..."force" it to be. We add labels because of what we want gods to be when no god really ever told us so. Instead, we project and end up projecting our own faults, weaknesses, and limitations.

The Force, is, imo, simply everything. And so it becomes us and it becomes limited within our limit bodies. It's perspective and perception is only limited by our myopia. However, it's not one of us, but all of us and all life and death. And therefore it has the sum of all sight and knows all because it is all. To me, trying to contain that into one body is hard to fathom. But since this doesn't match the theistic view of a god, I just say atheist.
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4 years 4 months ago #346260 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Am I an Atheist?
"Atheist" is one of those words that need to be understood within the context in which it arose.

Etymologically, "a (without) theos (God)" rose as a pejorative term applied to those thought to reject the gods worshiped by the larger society. As Roman Catholicism and Christianity in general became the dominant religions, anyone who did not believe in the Christian god (which is the same God of Judaism and Islam) was deemed a heretic. If you believed in other gods, you were a heretic for being a pagan and idol-worshipper. If you believed that there were no gods, then you were an atheist.

So when someone nowadays asks "are you an atheist?", the best response is to pause and notice who is asking, to notice the real question being asked. Depending who is asking, the implied questions will be one of the following:

- Do you believe in the God of Abraham?
- Do you believe in other gods of mythology?
- Do you believe there is an intelligent design and a Supreme Intelligence guiding creation?
- Do you believe in any form of Universal Consciousness?
- Do you believe that nature and reality is somehow a manifestation of some divine force?
- Do you believe that there is more to reality that what they eyes can see?

So, to this loaded question, you can only answer:

It depends on how you look at it.

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
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4 years 4 months ago #346263 by
Replied by on topic Am I an Atheist?
Everyone is an atheist. Just some believe in one less God than others.

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4 years 4 months ago #346273 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Am I an Atheist?
Who am I.

As a modern day a Jeddist I often ask myself this very thing. My answer comes from a galaxy far far away and ... from what’s in my pockets. Real talk. There are days when what’s in my pockets define me. Today I have new pants so I’m limited to contents but in truth I have ... a paper towel (used) - two pieces of blue chalk - one orange three bits of purple chalk - a green marble and a small plastic bingo chip to cover the numbers on the card.

Spiritually - it’s how I choose. Does it change ? Almost as possible as the contents of my pocket if ya think about it. Take pride in who you you are and what how you are it. As a Fellow Modern day Jeddist - you are one next to me — did ya catch that ? Next to me . Are you Atheist ? Ide like to know if your telling and I would love to hear the whole - testimony of every Knight here . Be the first ? Smiley face!

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova

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4 years 4 months ago #346300 by Eleven
Replied by Eleven on topic Am I an Atheist?
Yes I really liked your comments Zealot. That was along the lines of what I was thinking. I mean I think of my personal experience I’m trying to rent out his church to hold a Jedi service and of course at first it was OK until they realize that it was not about the Christian God and they booted me out.

And that’s what I meant By the title of the subject. Was this the world view view Jediism has an atheist religion? Because in the world most people are taught if you don’t believe in one of the main stream religions by chance you were either a pagan of some sort or you are an atheist.

I have often wondered if main stream religion was developed to divide us as a people. Rather than Unite us as a whole.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tl1zqH4lsSmKOyCLU9sdOSAUig7Q38QW4okOwSz2V4c/edit

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4 years 4 months ago #346334 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Am I an Atheist?

Eleven wrote: I have often wondered if main stream religion was developed to divide us as a people. Rather than Unite us as a whole.


I always feel drawn to responding to statements like this.

I think, as a duality, there will always be a noble side of humanity and that, I'll call it, "light side" is virtuous and seeks goodness and radiates positive energy. And I definitely include myself on that side.

The other side, I'll call it "dark side" and it operates based on the opposing viewpoint. I'm setting up the context for my point so bear with me.

We have this construct of rulers and kings and laws and all these things. And when we can we mythologize this construct (think Camelot) and heap praises upon the king (like many verses in Psalms) when in reality its politics and depending on the person it can be the worst thing for the people. But its already based on the idea of ownership and control. I "own" the land, therefore, I noble, you peasant. And this escalates to I king, you peon. And the one person becomes like a star; powerful, shining, but could also be very destructive. And what's even more destructive is when the people think he's on their side and they're united against "their" enemies when its really his enemies who threaten to take his place as the landowner. And maybe their taxes would go up but is it really always in their best interest? What if no one owned the land? Would it just be inevitable that someone would try to own it, therefore necessitating a king to protect it?

I believe religions utilize similar logic. And in reality, many are religious on one side of the coin and political on the other. The religion uses the notion of God or gods, because of the people's belief. Their belief in gods is a kind of currency. We all understand the concept of "political capital". Well, religion has something very similar in that there is a level of morality and corruption that the people can tolerate. When you start coloring outside those lines people get triggered and you risk revolt/revolution. Even kings are afraid of their own people because they know they're using them like a parasite. The people allow this because some parasites are actually helpful. But although they might rebel against an earthly king, would they rebel against "Their heavenly father"?

The bible starts prior to Genesis with this idea that there was a war in heaven and that Lucifer rebelled and rebellion is this evil thing that he did because he thought he should be God. I mean its almost like a story a king might want to use to make his subjects believe that as long as he is the "rightful" heir (by right that he or someone else manufactured) then no one should rebel against that. And while we're at it... instead of believing that the laws of the king come from a man who has little right to tell them how to live, let's say instead it comes from the gods! Ahh.... now all of a sudden you add much more weight to it. And now people serve the agenda of the king, not just because their lives depend on it, but now because their immortal souls do as well.

So in actual reality many religions are simply about a softer approach to power; using people's beliefs so that when they do use force, it seems justified. And it works! I cannot believe I was ever okay with the genocide of the Hebrews under Moses because they would not conform to what Moses said (he said she said) that God said. But I was. But now I realize whose interest it was really serving. It served Moses's interests. It gave him immense power. Who would dare speak against him after the last bunch for forced to drink the golden blood of their idol? But there was no separation of church and state so these unelected powers were able to use belief to essentially nominate themselves using the names of gods and then either seized power through political means or shared power with a king.

And with total control it wasn't about necessarily preaching a gospel and hoping everyone accepts, but rather motivating one group to fight and take over other groups, not for unity's sake, but for power. What begins as the power to influence your beliefs, becomes the power to deny you from using their building, becomes the power to burn witches, and so on. Any time you have a group of sincere believers you get another group finding ways to exploit them. Light side. Dark side.
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