Can't be a Jedi if you support Trump...?

I know I’m no fun but When I vote and if my candidate wins I do a little dance and song and continue to live my day to day. I normally don’t gripe or complain till the next election. Not my thing. It’s my style to let people work- especially those in office I’ve voted for. I’ve been the nit picking boss - not healthy for me. Same aspect for me in dealing with the president. It’s easy to gripe and complain. That’s what every one does. Not my cup of tea. I know - not fun but - the way I see it a person can make a decision and then ... grip and complain and even discuss some one they have no relevance to. I like baseball. What Papi Ortiz does or doesn't do - makes my coffee or eggs taste any better. Bet you me that if there were a free bookstore that toast in the morning would be goooooood or maybe let’s say - if I was forgiven ... or loved ... or hated ... or anything like that - might change the flavor of toast. Politics I leave to the professionals. Not I. Griping i leave to the processionals as well. But , if your a modern day Jeddist like me. ... I hope you do vote and I hope you do become active in your every day life. . . Even if it s only political some days.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: I know I’m no fun but When I vote and if my candidate wins I do a little dance and song and continue to live my day to day. I normally don’t gripe or complain till the next election

People are dying, Carlos.

Yes , every where not only in America.

According to the World Health Organization, 56 million people die each year, which is an average of about 153,424 people each day. The exact number of people who die each day, however, fluctuates.

Thanks for the Obama video (I miss that guy). Now I can clearly see how he made that mistake. He just said the number 15 and he looked like he was tired. Getting confused between 2 numbers spoken is close proximity is totally different from Obama actually believing there are over 50 states in the union. Now explain to me how windmills causing cancer can be explained away using similar logic. Because in my mind, that was something Trump actually believed, not a slip of the tongue. You can't say "Cancer? Oh I meant to say candy." It just doesn't work. And in my opinion its disingenuous to try and make this comparison because you know Obama didn't believe there were 57 states because he was talking about the number of states he VISITED. So how can you argue that he meant it? You can't. It's not possible. But how can you argue Trump DIDN'T mean what he said about cancer? Do you see the difference?

As far as Trump being racist, I think you might be looking at a more limited set of evidence then what I'm looking at and I don't want to use this thread to try and convince you otherwise on that, so for now I will simply agree to disagree. If you want to have that argument I'm sure I already have a thread on the subject. But let's just say you have to go deeper into Trump's history to get a full picture. And yes, even Omarosa said it.

https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history

VixensVengeance wrote: The policy of immigrants and children goes back much further than Trump. As far back as the Bush era and all through Obamas era as well.

False, Obama did not have a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY. Obama deported a LOT of people. Why? Because Obama was the POTUS. He had to defend the law and the constitution. But you don't have to violate people's human rights in that process. What you're doing is giving me thte general Republican red herring argument as if I'm talking about some generic immigration policy in the stead of the ZERO TOLERANCE policy that was mandated by Trump to Jeff Sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0OvFlS9rQ0

Watch Jeff Sessions explain to you what the NEW policy is and what THEY (Trump Administration) will do to you. What Trump and his allies do is political spin. They will claim Obama did the same thing in order to escape criticism. But they lie and use "alternative facts" all the time. If Obama had the same policy how do you explain Sessions selling the policy as a deterrent to illegal border crossing? Meanwhile, Republicans say "Obama did it" and talk about how Democrats are for "Open Borders". Both these things CANNOT be true at the same time!

VixensVengeance wrote: What do you think would happen if we pulled funds and troops and support from those areas? One word…. BOOM!

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-military-budget-components-challenges-growth-3306320

And no... no boom. Because here's what you do instead (and please note I said I was for a strong STRATEGIC military). You keep your bases. You quietly reduce staff. You invest in automated and remote controlled defenses. You increase the budget for developing drones. You deploy your drones in patrol groups of 3. What you do is illustrate your technological superiority but with low-cost equipment. You bring in bullet proof robots that act as shields and can be remote operated. This means when you have an "active situation" one of several teams simply jumps into the remote piloting role from one of 3 bases in the US. If a drone or robot is taken down another one replaces it and can be operated by the same pilot. But outside of this you send humanitarian aid to the people. Instead of paying soldiers to die you pay fewer people to provide aid. Most people fight out of desperation. Their leaders use their desperation to make them fight for whatever cause that keeps those leaders in power. If the leader is religious then he chooses a religious cause. But the people still need that sense of "if we don't fight we die or our way of life dies". Along with the aid I would provide internet access and videos interviewing people of all faiths, sharing how they are free to practice their religions in other countries and talking about what their religions were meant to be. Instead of attacking people like Ilhan Omar I would let her speak to the world passionately about her faith so that they know that even high ranking politicians in the US represent the same religion that their leaders say is under attack. In other words... there are other ways to fight that don't require killing people or scaring them into submission. The idea that might makes right is something that you have to continuously maintain because eventually people will lose their fear of you. And by renewing that fear you become the monster they think you are. And some people are willing to die in order to fight that monster. And as long as we are the bigger monster they will never be able to fully see the monsters in their own midst, hyping them up, and causing them to fight. We have to stop assuming that everyone in the world wants to kill us and that everyone "hates democracy" and all these other ridiculous propagandist lies that keep us in perpetual war. But if you show a different side then maybe every country will aspire to be like the US instead of demonizing the US. And then the threats will decrease dramatically. We've done that with Japan already. And that was after Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Now we're friends and allies. So you can't tell me its not possible.

Let me just tell you the latest because you probably haven't heard. NOW... The US government is sending letters to parents of sick children. When I say sick I'm talking about cancer and other life threatening illnesses. There was a policy for legal deferment of deportation based on medical condition. Trump quietly ended this policy so that parents have 33 days to take their children off whatever life saving treatment they were getting and leave the country to face the possible death of their child.

VixensVengeance wrote: And once again, Trump is NOT against asylum. He is for the full enforcement of Assylum Laws! There is a huge difference here and I get so sick and tired of people twisting the truth to suit their own narrative! Fuck! All I have to say…

If that were true... then why is it that after "Orange is the New Black" showed scenes where deportees could contact a certain phone number to get legal representation the REAL LIFE counterpart that it was based on... their immigration hotline was BLOCKED by ICE.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/26/oitnb-ice-immigrant-hotline/

This real life thing... COMPLETELY LEGAL. So please tell me how in blue blazes this fits into your defense of what Trump is for or against? And is this reality... ICE blocking immigrants from obtaining LEGAL representation... somehow in favor of the legal asylum system? If you need time to consider this before you respond, please take it. I can't make up these things in order to fit some narrative. This is simply what's happening and the narrative is that it's not. The narrative is that what's really happening is "fake news".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrRXOo5iP0Q

Here is Trump talking about going after birthright citizenship (you can skip to 3:35). So it's not about upholding the law or the constitution. It's about getting people out that he doesn't want in. Period. I'm showing you Trump's own words where HE is making the argument against you, not me. He's telling you that he doesn't care what the law says. Birthright citizenship is part of the constitution of the United States. He's not for it. Period. So then you have to ask yourself, "Well if he isn't for the law or the constitution then what IS he for?" I'm waiting for you to ask yourself this question. I hope that you will. I hope that you can see through these people. This isn't about winning an argument for me. It's about the truth. At this point we both think we have it, but only time and careful consideration of the facts will tell. Fair enough?

VixensVengeance wrote: All this bullshit… draft dodging, tax cheating, illegal visas. You are just making assertions without any evidence.

I'm seriously confused. Have you never heard of any of this before? Did you not know how Trump got out of the draft? Bone spurs is what TRUMP said. The problem is that truth is a pesky thing and tends to come out LATER.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-bone-spurs-diagnosis-vietnam-doctor-favor-father-1271399

The podiatrist, Larry Braunstein, died in 2007, but his daughters recently told The New York Times that their father frequently recalled coming to the aid of the Trump family during the Vietnam War in the late 1960s.

"I know it was a favor," said Elysa Braunstein, along with her sister, Sharon Kessel, in a report published on Wednesday. The two said that their father's account implied that Trump did not have the foot ailment that kept him out of the war.

So yes, the evidence is testimony from the daughter of the podiatrist. Was there any paper evidence that backed her testimony? No. Why would there be? Both doctors reported to have been involved in the bone spur diagnosis operated or lived in real estate owned by Fred Trump.

I can get into what we know about the tax cheating too, just to show you that these are not baseless claims. It's based on real reporting by competent news organizations like the NY Times. Trump wants you to think he cares about the law. By doing so he can use the law as a shield to make it so he doesn't look like a bigot. But that's why he said he could shoot someone (a crime) on 5th avenue and not lose any support. Because he believes people are stupid and easily shepherded into whatever position he wants. It bothers me that he said this openly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=iTACH1eVIaA

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

Each one of these organizations knows very well that if they were lying and Trump could prove it he would be able to sue them into the ground. Trump is one of the most litigious people in US history. If you believe he's not suing them when he thinks he could win you do not know Donald Trump.

And maybe this is the point of all of this information. Everyone thinks, good or bad, that they know Donald Trump. And this is why I call it a cult of personality because WHY do they believe what they believe? Certainly, what I say about Trump isn't based on Trump's rhetoric. So what do people believe, if not Trump's own rhetoric, who think everyone is lying on Trump? What is that belief based on? I truly want to know. Why do you believe you KNOW Donald Trump in order to know what he would and wouldn't do? Or what his intentions are? Where does that confidence come from? Because the rest of us can easily see that he's a liar. He claimed to be a self-made billionaire and people think he's smart because of that. He lied to Forbes, claiming his dad's money was his and so they put him on the Forbes list and he used that to get bank loans. You can call that smart Sith deception but it also means he's a liar and lies in order to get power. So believing him, believing a sith who you know lies for their own advantage, why? I can understand if you said, no I know he's a liar, tax dodger, con man, racist, etc. but I don't care because we have common interests. That, I can understand. But defending him... that I don't get. Why not just own the fact that he is a horrible person and an excellent sith? Why sith? I'm not saying that because he's horrible and horrible=sith. No. I'm saying that because in spite of how horrible he is he still got elected to the highest office in the WORLD.

So, I stay out of politics for the sake of it always becoming a "Thanksgiving table" style discussion where no one's mind is actually changed but I have a point that I want to bring up. I think in today's environment we really need to look at the media we intake, when you read a story that evokes an emotional reaction are you checking a different source for that information. Are you following up on the story to see if the original is being updated with corrections? These are things I ask because it happens on both sides and it serves to blind us to the actualy cause of the ever increasing political divide that stops meaningful legislation instead of "seesaw" laws that will just be thrown away by the next congress or president. Also, how often are things flying under the radar so to speak because we are all looking in one direction?

Just food for thought,
Kobos

Kobos wrote: So, I stay out of politics for the sake of it always becoming a "Thanksgiving table" style discussion where no one's mind is actually changed but I have a point that I want to bring up. I think in today's environment we really need to look at the media we intake, when you read a story that evokes an emotional reaction are you checking a different source for that information. Are you following up on the story to see if the original is being updated with corrections? These are things I ask because it happens on both sides and it serves to blind us to the actualy cause of the ever increasing political divide that stops meaningful legislation instead of "seesaw" laws that will just be thrown away by the next congress or president. Also, how often are things flying under the radar so to speak because we are all looking in one direction?

Just food for thought,
Kobos

I think this is spot on Kobos. We live in an era where everyone is accused of 'Fake News', yet the amount of times I see people posting stuff which a quick Google search confirms to be total nonsense is insane!

I must admit that I don't necessarily check EVERY SINGLE source, but as soon as I see anything which surprises me or makes me think 'hmmm', I always look for a second or third source confirming it

Uzima Moto wrote: Btw, there are plenty of conspiracy theories that have been found to be fact..

The whole Epstein Case is one GIANT reoccurring conspiracy.. as he's not the first high profile Pedophile connected to industry heads and policy makers..

911 was an inside job, the Deep State is 70 years old, and your planet is ran by psychopaths, pedos, and murderers..

If you think the rich and powerful don't conspire for more wealth and control.. well.. just bless your heart lol

I see a lot of false equivalence here. Just because one thing is true doesn't make another thing true. I see this in conspiracy theories all the time. There's usually a leap in logic that people gloss over like a plot hole in a movie. If you're into the movie you might not notice the plot hole. If you're critical of the movie (and there are endless youtube videos proving this) you can find almost every single hole in it. And if you're a fanboy of a certain franchise its easier to find easter eggs in a movie. Not seeing the holes doesn't mean you're not smart. It just means that the narrative has suspended your disbelief. Tons of science fiction movies have very bad science but we don't generally watch them for the science so we try not to pay too much attention. Conspiracy theories are the same way. If you like conspiracy theories then you're in it more so for the narrative and are less likely to see the plot holes. Please understand this is not an attack. I wish I had some kind of blinking sign that said "Not an attack", but it's really not because like I said before I was into conspiracy theories too. I even thought Alex Jones's secret Molech video was legit. But I was also a Christian and so the idea of politicians worshiping a 30 foot idol appealed to my beliefs.

With that said... you've said the whole Epstein case was a conspiracy before. I challenged you on that. You basically tried to make the point that people knew and didn't report it. But that's not what a conspiracy is. Conspiracy theorists will have you believe that people knew and sat on the information BECAUSE (and this is something they couldn't know without these people admitting it) they were in on some conspiracy to cover it up. Conspiracy theorists are ALWAYS hyping their own brand as a "truth teller" and to do that they know they have to discredit and undermine mainstream news organizations because guess what? That's their competition.

But how? A news giant should never be competition to a conspiracy theorist unless that one person thinks of themselves as a source of "news". But what journalism school did they attend? What credible sources do they have? Who did they get on the record? They just insert their opinions and theories as fact and ignore the most likely alternative to their own BS.

Reporters do not own the paper or network. It has to go through a process. Because the organization can be sued this means the process has to be legal and avoid legal liability. It's the difference between a legal company that operates over the table vs an illegal operation that operates UNDER the table. The standards are completely different. You can't go to a pharmacy and get mad when they wont sell you marijuana. Same thing. A news organization has checks and balances on zealous reporting. And yes, going after prominent or wealthy people is incredibly dangerous for an organization. Jeff Bezos aint worried about Alex Jones but if he was and Alex Jones said something to affect Amazon's profits... even Alex Jones would probably keep his mouth shut. It's not the same thing as the NY Times or the Daily Beast or CNN or some other organization saying it. And so these organizations have to PROVE what they say where as conspiracy theorists do not. Which means theorists can say whatever they want and if asked they'll just say "it is my opinion. It's just a theory." And they hide behind free speech. But there are libel and slander laws that can hold an organization responsible financially. So even if they sit on a story, that doesn't mean it is a story they don't want to tell. Sometimes its a story they simply cannot tell or cannot tell YET. Every major organization has come out since and told the Epstein story. So what happened? Are they no longer part of the conspiracy? Or... is it because they had enough information to tell the story they wanted to tell (and not get sued)? Don't forget, Epstein's documents of allegations were SEALED. That's the whole point of having such things sealed; so that they can't be used publicly. That's the whole point. So again... not a conspiracy. Just real journalism.

what evidence do you have to support your claims of a 70 year old deep state, and psychopaths, pedophiles, and murderers. What evidence do you have?

Are there rich and powerful people that conspire for more wealth and power? Obviously. But they don't have to do what conspiracy theories are telling you they do. There are completely legal ways for the wealthy to gain more wealth and power. The Koch brothers is a perfect example. All they have to do is lobby and support candidates who will vote according to their interests. If they were doing something more effective outside of this then for what reason would they waste their money doing it this way? And Trump actually proved that if a rich person can use an organization with other people's money for their own agenda, they will. So why then, would the rich and powerful not use vehicles like corporations and superPACs to get their way? That's all they need. This is what makes them masters of the universe. Thinking they need to like drink blood and sacrifice babies is a completely fabricated drama designed to sell products the same way that rap music has been invaded by sex, drugs, violence and greed. These things SELL. Period. Conspiracy theories are an industry that prey on people that want to hear the worst about people in authority. The theorists get fame and notoriety and more views on their videos so they actually make money on it. Many will even have patreon or some other form of monetization and beg for your support so they can "keep doing this important work". And people keep falling for it.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: According to the World Health Organization, 56 million people die each year, which is an average of about 153,424 people each day. The exact number of people who die each day, however, fluctuates.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: You have allowed this dark lord to twist your mind, until now, until now you’ve become the very thing you swore to destroy.

Anakin Skywalker: Don’t lecture me, Obi-Wan! I see through the lies of the Jedi. I do not fear the dark side as you do. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Your new Empire?

Anakin Skywalker: Don’t make me kill you.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy.

Anakin Skywalker: If you’re not with me, then you’re my enemy. And besides, so what if I killed younglings. According to the world health organization children die all the time. That's small potatoes compared to the 56 million who die every single year.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Geez... you're right Anakin. What have I been doing all this time? Why fight or save anyone? Millions are going to die no matter what...

Anakin Skywalker: Dude! That's what I'm saying, bro. You should come on over to the dark side.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Do you have cookies?

Anakin Skywalker: We have cookies.

Ok that was just funny right there, don't care who you are that's just funny/

Now, on a serious note, how do you know who the dark lords are? By there very nature they are hard to identify, or else they would be pretty crappy dark lords...............

Please stop making me defend orange man.

Much Love, Respect, and Peace,
Kobos

Ahhh ... you know what happens when you give a Jeddist a cookie ...

Edit : they will ask for a drink and sit down and eat it aka ... listen, at least till the coffee and cookie are gone.!

Kobos wrote: Now, on a serious note, who do you know who the dark lords are? By there very nature they are hard to identify, or else they would be pretty crappy dark lords...............

Exactly... I agree 100%. I do see Trump as a dark lord of the sith. Does he claim to be a sith? No. Does he have to? Did Palpatine?

One of our first encounters (according to the timeline, not the appearance of the movies) with Palpatine as a dark lord was him maneuvering two sides of the same republic into conflict. Palpatine used the threat of war to provoke a response that would ultimately make him the person they voted for to handle that threat.

On the other hand, Trump came in by telling the public to be afraid. "Their rapists. Their murderers." Steve King supports this by saying they have calves the size of cantaloupes. South Park had a long running joke about poor whites mad about immigrants taking their jobs and forming a mob.



Of course it was the Trade Federation that Palpatine was effectively controlling. On the other hand, by attacking foreign trade deals like NAFTA and starting a trade war with China Trump seems to be trying to form a blockade against products moving in and out of the country. But does he realize how many American jobs that would effect?

Palpatine, of course, used Naboo to get elected. In this Trump is different because he used Russian interference to help him get elected. Not only was Trump promising and ease of sanctions against Russia but we still see Trump pandering to our enemy, seeming to suggest that he would accept future aid from them and even arguing that he will work to get them back into the G8 without Russia giving up anything. That almost makes it seem more like Putin is the real emperor and Trump is more like Dooku.

This seems inconsistent but if you think about the Rule of Two, Trump acts like Putin's apprentice the same way Palpatine was an apprentice to Darth Plagueis.

Of course their completely different! I'm just kidding. After all, Palpatine executed Order 66 attacking his own law enforcement arm who he saw as a potential threat where as, on the other hand, its not like Trump would ever attack the FBI or fire its leader, triggering some kind of Special Counsel situation.

And its not like Palpatine who was accused of being a Sith lord and attempted execution for treason, but thrwarted for the sake of a more democratic process, is anything like the currently failed (still holding out hope) attempt to impeach Trump for his numerous attempts to obstruct justice according to Robert Mueller.

These guys are totally different! I mean Palpatine was using aliens like Jar Jar and Maul with speculation about being xenophobic because the policies of the Empire trended towards xenophobia https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Xenophobia


But hell... that's NOTHING like Trump being seen as racist while US policy tends to favor immigrants from European countries and largely ignores border "threats" on the northern border. (white [border] walkers welcome)

As well it is assumed that Palpatine somehow inherited his fortune from his master, which is in no way similar to Trump inheriting millions upon millions from his father Fred Trump.

Palpatine's focus on the military is nothing at all like Trump's focus on the military and wanting big extravagant military parades like North Korea.

There are so many dissimilarities I can hardly keep track. But aside from all these blatant distinctions what you have with Trump is someone who has achieved great wealth and power mostly by deception, not by forceful seizure. That's in no way similar to what Sidious did. They're so different, in fact, that Trump must have watched the whole SW series just as set of lessons of what not to do. And because he learned nothing from SW he makes sure that anyone in his immediate circle who even has a hint of disloyalty has to go... you know... before they can push him down a flight of stairs. The guy is so anti sith that he must be a Jedi.

This is sarcasm if anyone couldn't tell.

Kobos wrote: Please stop making me defend orange man.

I feel ya bro

Didn't Mueller say that Russia-gate was false? Thats probably the one argument that erks me, mostly because it was three years of essentially wasted time, provided Mueller was telling the truth when he said it was false. And now the Dems used the same logic of Russia interference against Tulsi Gabbard, one of their own! That's the main thing I can't stand about the far left: they are effectively ostracizing the centrists which will inevitably go to the right by default if they don't see the left on their side. I'm not defending Trump, rather I'm explain why both sides just irritate me nowadays.

Also, I do think some of the far left may be for open borders, as some do want to decriminalize border crossings, so is that not open borders?

Also, to get this back to the original question albeit in a different aspect, what do you guys think about a Jedi supporting his IDEAS, such as strong border and military and less reliance on Chine, but not his methods or boorish nature?

Deimos I think me and you have a very similar media diet, probably because of our mutual source ole Timmy. He's made me look deeper into things that catch my attention and that's gone a long way to change some of my views that and the fact that a constructive conversation is now incredibly difficult to have.

Zealot, So, this all said about Trump what is our alternative? The FBI thing was kinda legit since the FBI head admitted to leaking information about an active case, that's just poor law enforcement work period. Say impeachment succeeds (supposing he gets a second term), then what Pence, because I do not like Trump but dang Pence is like right wing Biden, that to me doesn't bode well. In your opinion which of the officials running against Trump is going to be a good fight for the crisis of our time? I am actually trying to have a good conversation here even though we may disagree and really only kinda.

Much Love,
Kobos

Assuming you mean Tim Pool, he's the only one I really watch as he seems mostly centrist with a slight lean left, like myself. My friend called him a jackass because he's conservative, and I just face palmed when I read that....

I do have a question...
as a Jedi - a Jeddist - a what ever your label is ... any one not us ... do they automatically look like Sith? Why is it so easy to say well I don’t believe like him sooooo you must be a Sith... it’s like our Catch22 sometimes. “ if you weigh less than a duck you must be a witch!” I do it too. On that idea alone - a palpitate will always be present and a side will always be taken. Good will always see bad as dark and dark will always be blinded by the light ... no matter how dim or the strength. There came a time where all of that ... the light the dark finally made sense to me. Differently ... I should say - then things started to change. I don’t like Trump. I don’t like my bosses. But I did vote for him for different reasons. What are we doing with our freedoms? We argue politics - words - meanings and all the whole ...nothing gets done.


High wind
Big thunder
No rain.