Can't be a Jedi if you support Trump...?

There is still that one tiny little detail that there are laws that people are supposed to follow in order to immigrate into the country, legally. Maybe they should, like, do that. I think we should reform the law, but i also think we should enforce whatever laws we have.

So for people who want to maintain immigration crimes are a viable offense, how do you think enforcement should work?
Currently, juveniles without eligible guardians in the US are temporary wards of the state and need housing. They can't be kept with an adult population legally. Do you think that separating families as such is reasonable in this sense, or is there a better way of housing them while their case/action is pending.

Yes I think this is the right thing to do . Maybe the government can make a sort of dormitory near the detention centers for those illegal immigrant children so they can visit there family and have housing but right now I don't think that the government would do such a thing because again they are stuck on partisan politics and won't reach across the aisle a put a way there differences .

Malicious wrote: Listen a little , who we vote for doesn't mean we can or cannot be a Jedi . We have the right to vote for who ever we think is best fit for what office they run for . Yes Donald Trump is corrupt and so is Hillary Clinton . Trump is hiding his tax returns and Hillary is hiding the fact that she deleted 30,000 emails that would of convicted her for a number of reasons . Personally I think Trump is the lesser of two evils here and I support Trump because he is actually doing exactly what he ran on instead of other Democrats who he will face in 2020 , those Democrats have went back on there campaign promises and promised or are promising things they can't possibly do . So ya I'mma vote for him in 2020 . Look at the failures of the fictional Jedi they focused on politics too much and doomed themselves as well as there order let's not do the same . Yes you can be a Trump supporter and be a Jedi , I am proof of that and if anyone says otherwise then they are wrong and if they say I am any less of a Jedi than the next guy then infact they are also wrong . By all means think what you like and vote how you want without the constant thought of being judged because if someone judges you for doing so then they are the ones who need to be judged . We are a sacred temple and are suppose to be a safe space . If you judge someone by the way they vote then please refrain from picking on that person . Personally my older brother is voting for Colonel Sanders for 2020 by all means be like my brother and vote the way you want not the way you are told to .

What would you say Trump is doing that he ran on?

We don't know who the Democratic nominee is yet but lets assume it's Biden, Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg, or Bloomberg. What campaign promises have they gone back on and which ones are impossible?

I don't know who I'm going to vote for yet. How are you so confident you know who you want to vote for when we don't know who is running, there is almost an entire year before the election, and you have not seen the debates among whomever the nominees are?

I know curiosity killed the cat (but satisfaction brought him back), yet I'm so curious. These are powerful statements you make but no specifics. I can't help but feel there are interesting things there but not a single specific detail.

Okay Trump ran on building the wall which is being built even though most Democrats not all but most tried to stop this , tax reductions which he did , more jobs which he did , lowered the unimplemented numbers especially with minorities , crack down on illegal immigration which he did and a few other things that I can't remember . I'm sorry but to the best of my terrible memory I forgotten which candidates I was talking about that in the past went back or did not fulfill their campaign promises .https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.economist.com/united-states/2019/06/08/democratic-presidential-candidates-are-making-promises-they-cannot-deliver

Most of the campaign promises that most of the Democrats running for president in 2020 can't be fufilled like Medicare for all , free college , adding a bunch new justices for the supreme Court ect . First of just a lone the Medicare for all would have a big negative impact on the economy and would make healthcare itself terrible possibly way worse . What kind of doctor that makes a six figure income would go for a plan that makes them only have a five figure income and if they do go for it then the doctors won't have much of a ascentive do it right or good for the matter .

Sorry typo unemployment numbers for minorities .

The real question is, does any of this matter?
This problem of fixing the world presents two very different paths to tread.
(either path is acceptable)
(to best understand this, think of it as abstractly/symbolically/Jungian as possible)

I like to call it the swimmer vs the floater.

The one who takes action and fights an external battle vs the one who stays in their little bubble and fights an internal battle.

That of the avenger, the fighter of truth and justice.
Or that of the monk, the sage, the mindful man on the hill, watching the weather change.

The first has the amazing quality of passion and righteousness, of fighting the good fight to mold the world into something better, STRIVING TO ACTUALIZE THE UNTAPPED INHERENT POTENTIAL BUBBLING BENEATH OUR REALITY!
And he has truth (or what his naturally-biased internal ideology deems as truth).

But so does that old peaceful fellow on the hill.
And you might say his truth is truer, as he more readily possesses something the other will always struggle to obtain.
Peace. True, deep, sigh-of-content peace and happiness.
Why? Because he does not worry superfluously.

So, who are you?
Are you one to sacrifice yourself for the world?
Or are you one to sacrifice the world for yourself?

CaesarEJW wrote:
So, who are you?
Are you one to sacrifice yourself for the world?
Or are you one to sacrifice the world for yourself?
[/b]

Thats like asking someone if they are going to heaven or hell, but what if neither place exists?

The title of this thread - "Can't be a Jedi if you support Trump?" seems to potentially convey two meanings, due to an observation someone once made about the word "you": "When I say 'you', I mean either you, me, or everybody." So, if the intent is to convey "everybody", as in "Could anybody be considered a Jedi if s/he supports Trump?" I am going to sidestep the question. There are people here who clearly think the answer is yes, and perhaps that is correct; I don't see anyone in this thread whom I think is malicious (other than Malicious, heh), Absent any bad intent, I don't wish to start proposing rules about who and who does not belong here.

But, if "you" actually means "you" in this case, so the question is "Do you yourself find being a Jedi compatible with a choice to be a Trump supporter?", a response is more clear.

Dominant in my mind is the prominent statement on the opening page of the Temple: "Jedi believe in the Force, and in the inherent worth of all life within it." With that in mind, I consider various impacts of the political policies of the current U.S. administration:

* Dramatically reversing America's commitment to climate change, placing ever-greater restrictions on the use of scientific evidence
at the EPA and making America one of only two nations on Earth to repudiate the Paris Climate Accord. This denies the inherent
worth of today's young people, future generations, and non-human forms of life.
* Equating asylum seekers with illegal aliens, imprisoning them under harsh conditions, and kidnapping children from their parents. This
denies the inherent worth of non-Americans.
* Making implied threats of a first-strike nuclear war on two occasions (against North Korea and Iran). This arguably denies the inherent
worth of virtually everyone.
* Implementing a tax cut mostly benefitting the very rich while over half of Americans can't afford a $400 emergency. This negates
the inherent worth of the middle class and poor.
* With some justification, withdrawing the American military from Syria - but in a manner that left our Kurdish allies exposed to danger.
This denies the inherent worth of the Kurds - and, as a sideline, has driven them into a tentative alliance with Russia.
* Trying to implement an across-the-board ban on Muslims entering the U.S. This abrogates the inherent worth of Muslims.
* In an admitted extension of longstanding U.S. policy, has participated in the instigation of disorder and violence in Venezuela and Brazil.
This denies the inherent worth of our Latin American neighbors.
* With the help of Congress, has taken no action to secure America's easily hackable election system. This denies the inherent worth
of voters, or at least their desires.

So - could I personally in good conscience be a Jedi if I supported Trump? Easy squeazy lemon peasy -

No.

Malicious wrote: Zealotx yes we can agree on certain matters but what I disagree with you on is about the border and how people and children are treated . Yes I know what goes on at the southern border and actually it isn't as bad as what the far left is saying , most of what you said is actually far left propaganda . But a little bit is actually true , I will admit that . An accurate UN report which most news networks didn't show because it would invalidate most of the far left propaganda is that child separation and detainment at the southern border was much higher under Obama than Trump and most of this so called " atrocities " you hear about is actually from Obama era footage and media not from the Trump era . Yes I will admit that they still separate children from parents but my counter statement is this : if a legal American adult that has children done a crime than that adult would be imprisoned and if there was no family members able to take those children then they too would be taken into the custody of government . We just can't send the kids back without parents that would be wrong . And about the detention centers there being held at the reason why they aren't the best place is because both sides won't get over there own ego to pass bills to better the detention centers and if they do then they won't agree on how much money or if any money should be allocated to pay for the new centers . The reason why there are so called cages which are actually fencing is so the family doesn't try to escape judgment of there crimes . If I was going illegally to a different country the key term illegal and I wanted to stay there I would expect the same treatment . We tried the catch and release strategy and that didn't work they did not show up to there court hearings . If i skipped a court hearing to convict me of a crime then I would have a warrant out for my arrest but that wouldn't work for these illegal immigrants because they have no reliable legal documents to find them . The only way we could release them is if we put tracking devices in there arms and even then it wouldn't really work because you can just take it out . So in reality this is the best option . Now I know what you might say best option ? ' tilts head in confusion . Yes but we need to have better detainment centers but sadly both sides won't stop pounding sand to actually get that done or agree on the funding and put it in use .

With all due respect, brother Malicious. I think you might be assuming that my sources of information are questionable. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez went to the border. That wasn't under Obama. It's very easy to try and blame Obama but it is clear from the testimony of Jeff Sessions that this was a new policy and that it was meant as a deterrent. But I think you can agree that there is no better witness than the people who are directly involved. If I give you second hand information you can simply dismiss the source. And I can as well. So I propose, that at least between us, we show each other video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0OvFlS9rQ0

Listen to his words. "New enforcement priorities". New. Obama didn't have a "zero-tolerance" policy. He deported a LOT of people; more than he gets credit for by the right and was often called the "Deporter in Chief". However, politics from the right constantly accuses Democrats as wanting open borders. Do you see the problem with that? Instead of arguing talking points about "the other side" we would be wise and do well to dispute issues based on verifiable evidence and not some kind of superstitious boogeyman strawman where Lefties are trying to rob you of your civil liberties. Because those are the politics of fear. And we, of all people, should not be influenced by that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbWVcXKYrkw
(and take note of the caption about the judge ordering reunifications of families)
Again, the situation at the border didn't exist under Obama like this because of the zero tolerance policy of the Trump administration. The talking points on the right enable the use of a fallacy. In other words, they say x happened under Obama so what we're doing isn't that bad. While that x may not have been that bad under Obama, anything taken to an extreme is prone to disaster. And because of the flood of people combined with zero tolerance, there were too many people to process and they had no system in place to handle so many people and keep accurate records. THAT is what created the problem. The execution. Not the law. Let's remove it from the political context so you can see my point without any "that's my team though" influence.

Let's say you have a car. It works fine. It's not the best car, but it's not the worst. It's got a decent engine and tires. Well, you know that car is going to be okay under normal driving conditions. But how long can you run that car at 100mph without any problems? At 100mph, the engine matters a whole lot more. The tires matter a whole lot more. Because obviously you're putting stress on that car. Now if the previous owner of the car was a race car driver you might expect certain things about the performance. It could be in great condition and may have upgrades. Or he could have worn it out so that it wont perform as well as it used to at higher speeds. Now if the previous owner was a granny, that makes a difference but if you're racing the car you can't blame the granny or even the race car driver for how you are pushing that car to the extreme. Is that fair? Because there wasn't a zero-tolerance policy under Obama it wouldn't be fair to compare the 2014 pics with the same kind of pics but with many more people or excuse the inability to reunite families because of how carelessly they were separated. And a lot of the recent influx are asylum seekers because of the situation in South America where their lives are in constant danger. We're not simply talking about Mexicans who are looking for work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIYRVGegSCU

note: Johnson said that chain link fences or "cages" weren't ideal but were one of the ways authorities dealt with a mass immigrants that had to be transferred to Health and Human Services (HHS) within 72 hours. - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/jeh-johnson-obama-trump-migrant-detention

if you've ever been to jail, being there for 8 hrs is different from 24 which is different from 48 and so on.

The other thing I would recommend is that, and you don't have to I'm just giving you options, we address (preferably with more than one video) one small point at a time because often the small points add up to a larger outlook and often a larger agenda and the larger agenda is often used to advance and defend these smaller points that may or may not be pure propaganda. If there's propaganda on the left that you want to disprove, trust me, I want you to disprove it. But there has to be some evidence, not an opposing talking point on the right. Because the moment we assume that 1 side is lying on the other and our side is only and always truthful with us, then we're lost. Agreed?