31 Jul 2019 02:37 #340748 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Moderates
The thing about communication is that what is intended as a message and what gets perceived as the message by the receiver are rarely the same.

So, even if a moderate offers an opinion that is carefully thought out, the radicals will latch on to whatever trigger word is trending at the moment, and blow it out of proportion. This is why I tend to keep quiet in regard to politics. I am too radically to the left for right-wing (conservatives), and too radically to the right for left-wing (liberals).

Growing up I was more inclined towards the leftist ideals of socialist policies, until I actually got what I voted for, and socialism nearly wrecked my country. I still am in favor of progressive laws that temper some of the potential abuses of capitalists, but only as long as the structural economic dynamic is still capitalist. As for social norms and whatnot, I am a fully blown liberal.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Step aggressively toward your fear. - Jocko Willink

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31 Jul 2019 05:28 #340754 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic Moderates
To a certain extent the whole 2-dimensional political spectrum paradigm is a bit oversimplified. People with very similar views on education policy can be wildly different when it comes to foreign policy or the myriad of other topics that are crucial to politics.
Moderates (to a certain extent) run most things because radicals tend to espouse views that would require a revolutionary change (which historically are very painful). Very few people want completely lawless capitalism, nor soviet communism.
Also semi-relevant tangent: the word "liberal" is absolutely meaningless at this point because people overuse it and it's nowhere near what it used to mean. "Moderate" would be down the same path were it not for the word's meaning outside of politics.

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01 Aug 2019 16:35 #340786 by Brick
Replied by Brick on topic Moderates

steamboat28 wrote: Moderates are conservatives too afraid to take the label.

*DISCLAIMER: I'm basing my response on UK Right/Left Politics which is VERY different to US Right/Left Politics*

I'd have to disagree. A Moderate i exactly what it says on the tin. They see the pro's and con's on both sides. Unfortunately, this means that they are too right wing for people on the left and too left wing for people on the right, and are therefore often often disregarded by both.

A perfect example of this is the BBC New Network in the UK, in that pretty much every independent study carried out finds it to be one of the least biased news sources in the country, yet it is constantly under fire from Politicians who see is as being Left/Right-wing propaganda.

THAT SAID, I think Moderates can be split into 3 basic categories, and I think this is often where the confusion comes from:

1 A 'Moderate-Moderate' who is a complete centrist on both economic and social policy. Most common.

2. An 'Economic-Moderate' who is reasonably Economically Right-wing but Socially Central. Second most Common and probably the category I fall under.

3. A 'Social-Moderate' who is Economically Central but Reasonably Socially Left-wing. Least Common in the UK.

I think this creates issues in perception from others, because whilst someone may be a 'Moderate' when looking at their average political beliefs, they are rarely moderate on EVERYTHING, but rather hold some right-wing views and some left-wing views. I'll use the BBC as an example of this again as it certainly has some very right-wing shows/presenters, but it also has very left-wing shows/presenters, and therefore is 'unbias' as an average. Its almost impossible to be completely neutral on everything at all times. Though I've gotten a little off topic in terms of your original question Kobos.

Kobos wrote: Just a interesting question for really everyone around the world.

Do moderates even have a say anymore in world affairs? Does non-socially based policy even matter anymore at this point?

I believe they do in elections but as I look at the economic movements within society(where power is actually located) I see less and less of any form of commercial/advertisement/entertainment that is not directed towards the far sides of political spectrum. I want to hear other's opinions on this, I know I am a crazy person but I can't be the only person that sees this. And if I am then I would like to know that so I can consider my perspective deeper.

Much Love, Respect and Peace,

You are certainly correct in that advertising and rhetoric has become more extreme. I think is due to society becoming obsessed with 'being right'. So you pick a 'side' and you stick with it no matter what, and anyone who picks the other side is your sworn enemy. Anyone who voted for Trump is a 'Dumb Racist', and anyone who supports Berine is 'Communist Scum'. We've started treating politics like sports teams, instead of a public forum to share and develop ideas, and that's a really dangerous game.

Ultimately, the Left and Right both what the same thing: for the people in their country to be as happy and healthy and wealthy as possible, they just have very different ways of going about it. both sides have valid arguments, and both sides have shit ones. Its important that we call our own side out on their bullshit as often as we call the other side out for theirs.

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01 Aug 2019 23:25 #340795 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Moderates
You bring up interesting points. I never thought of socialism and capitalism as anything more than economic systems. Yet really there is the socialism where the government runs everything, and the socialism where the government looks after everyone, much like with capitalism, you can do it the Warren buffet way or the Bernie Madoff way.

They don't belong on a left to right scale, or a moderate to extreme scale, they are completely different ideas.

People can look at the NHS as a socialist if not communist principle, when in my view it should be presented as a sound investment that makes economical sense... Socialist in action, capitalist in principle. Helping people = more money.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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