Researchers Have Found a Way to Disagree Productively About Politics & Religion

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04 Feb 2019 06:09 - 04 Feb 2019 06:13 #333582 by Rosalyn J
I have found an article that I enjoyed. I've placed it here to hear your thoughts. The full text is below in the spoiler
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]



www.sciencealert.com/here-s-how-to-have-...epcXi7p4dd_xit41j6j8

Don't let your wounds get in the way-Bishop Vashti McKenzie
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Last edit: 04 Feb 2019 06:13 by Rosalyn J.
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04 Feb 2019 17:08 #333607 by Omhu Cuspor
I am having to work really hard to avoid offering a statement both inaccurate and comedic ... "Now, I just disagree with that research!" :-)

In seriousness, I do have to admit I don't fully get the conclusion. The researchers draw a clear picture that most of us need something more than facts alone to inspire us to reconsider our ideological assumptions. But what I read from their prescription is to offer a statement like, "That's not the way I see it," or "That's not what I believe," and then providing the justification for our different point of view, which would presumably include a list of facts. The fault may be mine, but I am not seeing how that would diminish the likelihood of an interaction becoming fiery.
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04 Feb 2019 17:42 #333616 by Kelrax Lorcken

Omhu Cuspor wrote: I am having to work really hard to avoid offering a statement both inaccurate and comedic ... "Now, I just disagree with that research!" :-)

In seriousness, I do have to admit I don't fully get the conclusion. The researchers draw a clear picture that most of us need something more than facts alone to inspire us to reconsider our ideological assumptions. But what I read from their prescription is to offer a statement like, "That's not the way I see it," or "That's not what I believe," and then providing the justification for our different point of view, which would presumably include a list of facts. The fault may be mine, but I am not seeing how that would diminish the likelihood of an interaction becoming fiery.


The larger point was to change the way we engage with people we disagree with, or people who are just stubbornly, aggressively wrong about something. The idea is that people are more open to being corrected or challenged if the overall tone isn't hostile or aggressive. Why we need to do that at all is a bitter rant on my part (don't worry, I'll spare you the rant).

I disagree, somewhat, with it, but the merit of it is undeniable. It would be beneficial if people could adopt a less combative approach to debate and discussion.

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken, Jedi Pathfinder
May The Force Guide You
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Jo...-stormcaller?start=0
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05 Feb 2019 01:39 #333640 by Rosalyn J
If we , generally speaking, would like to move from debate to dialogue, Maitre Alexandre Orion suggests this book:

I think you might like this book – "Martin Buber's I and Thou: Practicing Living Dialogue" by Kenneth Paul Kramer.

Start reading it for free: a.co/dxGoAdO

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Don't let your wounds get in the way-Bishop Vashti McKenzie
Senior Knight, Senior Ordained Minister
Youth Minister
Editor in Chief of the TOTJO Times
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. Submit articles
Teaching Maitre: Alexandre Orion
How Am I Doing , My Commitment
Kyber,Freja Saol-Wasser, Tobias Giesel, ZealotX,and Jhannuzs

Initiate Journal , Apprenticeship Journal , Clerical Journal , Continued Study
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21 Feb 2019 20:32 #334720 by ZealotX
My mother is one of the nicest people I know but she just refuses to recognize that I do not share her beliefs. And it makes me feel like I have to offer some evidence to the contrary just so that she'll accept... just accept... that I don't believe an immortal deity somewhere out in space who can hear all prayers simultaneously is the answer to all of my problems. And it frustrates me because she sees it as a way to escape any other solutions. And yet, this same deity will never be blamed for anything he doesn't do or gets wrong.

While this sounds smart I just don't think it would penetrate people like my mom under any circumstances. At this point their brains have rewired themselves to block anything that disproves their belief, including deleting it from memory, so that the thing they believe so strongly in is safely protected. I call this the AFDM (automatic faith defense mechanism). Think of automated turrets that lock on to threatening targets if they get too close. The person might become aggressive or really passive like a lamb and after you exhaust yourself with the pure logic of it all, then they say "well God moves in mysterious ways" as if God wrote the bible; the very book people use to prove God exists.

I think it's all about psychology. This is confirmation bias to the extreme. In my opinion what you have to do is start agreeing with them and slightly nudge the conversation into a series of questions that don't threaten their fundamental belief because that belief is their "view of the world". That's not likely to change without undoing years and years of psychological programming and reinforcement. One's view of the world shapes one's identity. So trying to change that view is taken by the brain as a personal attack. So you have to figure out what their view of the world is and where they draw the line between what they actually believe and what their religion tells them to believe.

There's usually some room or space in between. Why? Because there's too many religions and too many denominations. So they can accept that a denomination can be wrong which means probably most people are open to questioning their interpretation of their religious text. You have to get them asking questions they wouldn't think about on their own to explore and expose their own biases. "Is that something you think you need to believe?" "How would it affect your life if that wasn't true?" "Why do you believe Moses or Aaron when it clearly says they lied here?" And before Moses lied to Pharaoh, Abraham lied to Pharaoh. "Why are these people so credible to you?"

Eventually, you'll find that religious credibility doesn't rest on the people telling the story but on the NUMBER of people who believe and retell the story. And when they poke at your unbelief it is because psychologically they need everyone around them to believe so that they can have no doubts.
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