Etymology of the word "Jedi"

I really gotta say... I've searched and searched, and just can't find any valid proof of Lucas plainly stating that "Jedi" came from "Jidaigeki" - which really, is a bit of a stretch. It *HAS* been rumoured, and it seems, according to many Japanese here in Japan, that it was a rumour started here (though the validity of that is beyond me)... it just wouldn't be in Lucas' nature to directly state such a thing - he'd much rather leave things ambiguous and let people imagine. In fact, this link here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi#Etymology - clearly states that is has been *thought* to be derived from it. It is a generally accepted speculation that this could be so (and hey, it could be), but it seems that it is as yet unconfirmed.

Truthfully though, considering "jidaigeki" is "jidai" = "period" and "geki" = "play", then why this? It's too broad and general. A more fitting movie/anime/manga/play/series/etc. genre known as "sengokujidai" would be a better candidate, wouldn't it? "sengoku" = "warring" and "jidai" = "period" (I mean, c'mon - Star Wars, right? lol).

At any rate, it seems, that while plausible, there doesn't seem to be any hard evidence that it *IS SO*... not saying that it ain't, in fact, I agree it COULD be... but it just seems that it is yet uncomfirmed, and just a generally accepted (and quite often asserted) speculation. Else, I think the wiki article's content would show it so. Things like that wouldn't just go unchecked with all us mad fans out there

It seems that some who like the idea will assert it, as though they have the authority to, such as the guy in this documentary video below, at about the 21:30 mark in it, but it still isn't Lucas' say so.

It's just a widely accepted speculation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUGdipRYsLY

Me personally I Prefer not to know Sometimes it really is ok to just leave things to the Imagination. As a writer myself I know I have created alot of unique names for sake of story, right off the cuff, in fluidity of the adventure going on at the time. The Great Hessin (Dragon god of water and ice), Ya'vaie (Dragon god of spring and creatures), Borran (Dragon god of fire and metal) none of these names were inspired by anyone but my own play with words.... It is just what writers do and George Lucas is a writer "Jedi" could have easily been the same.

Kitsu Tails wrote: Me personally I Prefer not to know Sometimes it really is ok to just leave things to the Imagination. As a writer myself I know I have created alot of unique names for sake of story, right off the cuff, in fluidity of the adventure going on at the time. The Great Hessin (Dragon god of water and ice), Ya'vaie (Dragon god of spring and creatures), Borran (Dragon god of fire and metal) none of these names were inspired by anyone but my own play with words.... It is just what writers do and George Lucas is a writer "Jedi" could have easily been the same.

I totally agree! I had always thought he simply created the word - he's created so many-many out of thin air besides, so why not Jedi? Due to the inordinately vast amount of pulled-out-of-the-ether terms, words and names throughout the rest of it all, it more than seems the very most likely thing

Tarran wrote: I really gotta say... I've searched and searched, and just can't find any valid proof of Lucas plainly stating that "Jedi" came from "Jidaigeki" - which really, is a bit of a stretch... clearly states that is has been *thought* to be derived from it. It is a generally accepted speculation that this could be so (and hey, it could be), but it seems that it is as yet unconfirmed.

Truthfully though, considering "jidaigeki" is "jidai" = "period" and "geki" = "play", then why this? It's too broad and general. A more fitting movie/anime/manga/play/series/etc. genre known as "sengokujidai" would be a better candidate, wouldn't it? "sengoku" = "warring" and "jidai" = "period" (I mean, c'mon - Star Wars, right? lol).

Lucas was a film student at USC , and during his time there, he admits to seeing Seven Samurai and being "hooked" on his [Kurosawa Akira's] filmmaking style.

So hooked, in fact, that he admits heavy influence from The Hidden Fortress in the manner of telling the story through two seemingly unimportant characters (in our case, C-3PO and R2-D2), and actually his early drafts are rumored to resemble the Kurosawa film much, much more (before being reused in an altered state for The Phantom Menace).

The POV isn't the only thing he borrowed from the film, either; those famous screen-wipes we know and love actually come from the wipes in Kurosawa's films. The Jedi dress in non-arguably Japanese inspired clothing, Vader's helmet has repeatedly been said to have been based on a kabuto. The closest real-world analogue to the lightsaber's all-over cutting surface is the shinai, we've spent hours and hours discussing the role Eastern spirituality played in the conceptualization of "the Force" on this website, and some of the plot similarities are impossible to ignore.


So, while you're all more than welcome to argue the concept until the cows come home, the fact is that this is something that's been brought up repeatedly by Lucas, interviewers, biographers, film students, and authors since 1977's first summer blockbuster. I'd say the case is rather closed.

p.s. - Jidaigeki is the name of a film genre. Sengoku jidai is the name of a historical period. If Lucas were a history teacher we'd have gotten a much more boring plot from Raiders of the Lost Ark and perhaps Jedi with different names. He was, however, a film student.

steamboat28 wrote: Lucas was a film student at USC , and during his time there, he admits to seeing Seven Samurai and being "hooked" on his [Kurosawa Akira's] filmmaking style.

So hooked, in fact, that he admits heavy influence from The Hidden Fortress in the manner of telling the story through two seemingly unimportant characters (in our case, C-3PO and R2-D2), and actually his early drafts are rumored to resemble the Kurosawa film much, much more (before being reused in an altered state for The Phantom Menace).

Yeah, no-one's contesting that... but Japanese films weren't his only influence. A strong one, yes.

steamboat28 wrote: The POV isn't the only thing he borrowed from the film, either; those famous screen-wipes we know and love actually come from the wipes in Kurosawa's films. The Jedi dress in non-arguably Japanese inspired clothing,

I agree, the clothing is of s very Japanese style on the Jedi side of things... though in the Empire, it is mostly, inarguably of a more German Nazi style. The officer's uniforms, Vader's coal stove helmet...

steamboat28 wrote: Vader's helmet has repeatedly been said to have been based on a kabuto.

"Repeatedly said" - by who? Not Lucas. About as many people say that Vader's helmet sort of looks like a kabuto-influenced style of headgear as there are who see that it's identical to the German Nazi soldier helmet. And see the used of the colours of the "blood flag" of Hitler's reich. Or the use of "storm troopers". Etc. (Ex.; See the vid' I last posted in previous post in this thread.)

steamboat28 wrote: The closest real-world analogue to the lightsaber's all-over cutting surface is the shinai, we've spent hours and hours discussing the role Eastern spirituality played in the conceptualization of "the Force" on this website, and some of the plot similarities are impossible to ignore.

Well, I'm not ignoring anything - in fact, I'm seeing also what seems to be being ignored here, which is the whole Nazi side of influences too... nothing wrong with that, and I'm sure nothing I'm stating flat-out negates points you bring up. I guess we're both sing the same coin, which has more than one side, is all.

steamboat28 wrote: So, while you're all more than welcome to argue the concept until the cows come home, the fact is that this is something that's been brought up repeatedly by Lucas, interviewers, biographers, film students, and authors since 1977's first summer blockbuster.

The idea that "Jedi" came directly from the word "jidaigeki" has never been brought up or mentioned by Lucas himself, as far as I can find, no matter what comes home during argument. However repeatedly, or by however many people something is repeated, it doesn't make something fact. Now, I'm open to it, I do see it as plausible, but until I see Lucas say it himself, I cannot see it as "fact" - merely possible.

steamboat28 wrote: p.s. - Jidaigeki is the name of a film genre. Sengoku jidai is the name of a historical period.

Jidaigeki is a genre here in Japan, meaning "period piece", which can have films depicting any period - Meiji jidai, Jomon jidai, *whatever* - Sengoku jidai is a historical period, but it is *also* the name of a genre here. We say "Sengoku jidai anime" for example, to mean one which shows a story from the warring period as opposed to a period of peace, or a genre involving outer space. An example of Sengoku jidai anime would be "Inu Yasha"... an example of Sengoku jidai manga would be "Vagabond".

Now please keep in mind - my only points are these;

#1 - Yeah, I see the possibility...

#2 - I only have never-ever seen/heard (but am open to seeing/hearing) Lucas himself stating straightforwardly that it is so...

#3 - Beyond that, I wouldn't myself see it as "fact" merely based on any voluminous number of people saying so, whether they shout, scream, or stomp their feet... until the cows come home, or beyond...

#4 - Jedi clothing are of a clearly Japanese style / Empire officer uniforms, clearly Naziistic...

That's all. Not arguing. Merely made some valid points, which, doesn't truly negate anything. IT COULD STILL BE that it is so, I just haven't heard/see Mr. Lucas say it. It is VERY possible he simply made up the word - the only fact is that BOTH are POSSIBLE. And if it did or didn't come from "jidaigeki", I'm certainly not going to be bent out of shape over it.

steamboat28 wrote: I'd say the case is rather closed.

Yeah, me too