Where do you stand on, "The Shooting"?

I am really sorry but I have to put my two bob in here. I, as most of you know, am Australian and am most dismayed of the casual reaction you have to gun control.

When the Port Arthur Massacre happened the Australian Government passed a law that prevented this kind of thing from ever happening ever again.

My Grandmother's sister was there that day when Martin Bryant decided to wreck peoples lives with his thoughts of destruction. I understand how the people of Virginia Tech feel when they say that their way of living will never be the same again.

I do not understand what the bad thing is about having adequate gun control. It is not that hard to do something about it, really. I should know, my country has already achieved this.

I am shocked that gun control has not been spoken of seriously before this. Take the Columbine High School Massacre way back in 1999 for example. That should have rung alarm bells for strict gun control. That should have been the beginning.

The talk about putting shooting lessons on the agenda for schools will only make matters much, MUCH worse. It will give students the authority and more dangerously, the skills to shoot more poeple.

I also see a problem that if another massacre (may it never happen) occurs and the shooter is caught alive then I can just imagine the excuse being that he was taught to use the gun in school.

This is a gross mishandling of peoples lives, money and school hours. That money is being spent on teaching students to kill and if they are taught 'properly' it could be more dangerous with the amount of lives that will be lost the next time it happens.

The Port Arthur Massacre taught us Australians, that lives are very precious and should not be squandered by terrible gun control.

Now what I would like to say and what I will say are totally different things meaning no offence to anyone. You need to understand that without ADEQUATE gun control you (the United States) will continue to sprial into Chaos.

Teaching students to kill will only bring pain, suffering and retribution from others. How many lives will be lost before you realise this?

Tell me, who of your loved ones must die at the hands of a deranged killer before something is done?


'Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering.'

I fully understand and apprectiate your position. any event of this type is tragic. However, in the USA we value Freedom above all things, even security. It is also within our constitution that citizens have the right to bear arms. and as such we cannot infringe upon that right. it is quite the juxtaposition. this causes mental anguish from many, including myself. It is hard to work with.

Well, I believe fully in our constitution the way it was framed. Our forefathers did not give us the right to bear arms so that we could go hunting at the lodge, NO--- at the time that was how the citizenry could equalize itself against the government at any time. So, in reality we should all be allowed to have tanks, grenades, Apaches, F-14's (fully loaded) full automatic weapons etc.

Call me crazy, and I know I'll here about it but, that is how I see it.

I am so glad to have you Back my friend! MTFBWY

To quote the commanding general of the Japanese military from World War II on why a full scale ground invasion on US soil was not conducted, \"Because behind every blade of grass would be a sniper.\" Yes, I'll admit there are flaws in our system, no system is perfect, but you only hear about the negative things that happen. You don't hear about the law abiding citizen that stopped gas station robbery because he had his own gun. It doesn't sell. Negative news is what sells to the world. If all that was reported in the papers or on TV was how good everything was going, there would be no viewers or people purchacing papers. We can pass all the gun control laws we want, bad people will still have their guns while citizens that follow the laws become helpless. When Australia passed their gun ban, violent crime sky rocketted. Criminals knew the citizens were unarmed and didn't pose a threat. It is the same way here in the states when a state or city passes a gun ban or insane resrtictions, violent crimes involving firearms dramatically spikes as the criminals were now safe from being shot themselves. Our right to bear arms is one of our most prized freedoms and keeps milions safe and our borders more secure from foreign threat. Yes, when things like the VT shooting happen, it is tragic that lives are loss because of the misdeeds of the few. But it is not enough justification to punish the masses by taking away their freedom to own, bear, and use firearms. All that being said, I value your opinion as someone that has had direct impact by the misuse of firearms. I hate that someone close to you had to experience such a life altering event.

I agree with the majority in here, although maybe shooting classes in school may be a little to pro-active, we can not take guns away from law abiding citezens. The best we can do is get gun owners to be more responsible for their firearms, and crackdown on illegal firearm sales and possession. Like it has been said many times over, tighter gun control will leave only the non law abiding citezens with firearms. We'll all be helpless, well, most people. As for me, I'd just get some illegal firearms. Sure I'd be breaking the law, but if it was for protection of my family and way of life, I'd do it anyways. Or become a police officer, so I could carry one anyways.

DK

jidun wrote:

Now, liberals will be saying take all the guns away... I side with the article below, and said as much, shortly after the shooting.


Guns on campus: One is one too few


57 minutes ago

BLACKSBURG, VA., IS a college town surrounded by countryside full of good ole boys who grew up shooting and hunting. Virginia Tech undoubtedly has a good number of experienced marksmen on campus as students, staff members and faculty. If just one of them had been able to retrieve his weapon quickly, there might be only three dead -- the first two victims and the shooter -- instead of 32.

Crazy? Hardly.

Consider the Saturday shooting at the Uptown Tavern in Manchester. Two men, one a Golden Glove boxer, were being tossed from the bar at 12:45 in the morning when the boxer allegedly punched a bouncer in the face. The other man pulled a handgun and started firing at the bouncers and assistant manager.

The gunman fired six shots into the crowded bar before a customer who had come over to help the bouncers whipped out his own handgun and fired back. He hit the shooter twice, disabling him and instantly ending the shooting spree. The only reason that same scenario could not have played out on the Virginia Tech campus is that firearms are banned there.

Predictably, where guns are banned, only those willing to disobey the ban have guns. Law-abiding, rational citizens who might be able to stop a mentally ill or simply cold-blooded killer are left defenseless in the face of a murderer.

\"All the school shootings that have ended abruptly in the last 10 years were stopped because a law-abiding citizen -- a potential victim -- had a gun,\" Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said after the Virginia Tech shooting.

Those that did not end abruptly? No armed citizen was there to stop the massacres.

You can say that one gun on campus is one too many. But it is and always will be impossible to prevent a determined person with ill intent from smuggling one (or more) onto campus. The best defense against such people is to increase the number of armed good guys so that there is always someone nearby able to respond.

See original article at The Union Leader ....<br><br>Post edited by: admin, at: 2007/04/17 22:16

So basically what you are saying is that everyone should carry a weapon to defend yourself against people with weapons? That is madness!

If the United States, or any country for that matter, makes weapons such as pistols, shot guns, or any firearm as easily accessable as they are then they are... you are asking for events such as the Shooting in Virginia or Columbine, Colorado to happen. Violence simply begets more violence... and if you are living in fear of other people and the weapons they could have... you are bound to that state for the rest of your life.

Let go your fear, and your hate... and embrace life. Focus not on the aforementioned, and on your family, friends, and these things that allow you to reach the pinnicle of your existance.

ok lets face it everyone there is no ultimate solution. where we stand with these kinds of things is our business. there is no way that a govt can get ready for anything like this, nor civilians. if you have a weapon to protect yourself is you're choice. i personally do, but i will not go off on any one who feels they don't need one, i am happy for them that they feel that safe. this topic is how do we as individuals feel on this matter. so if someone voices there opinion then listen take it in and voice you're on the topic itself. please do not get mad at people with their opinions, there might be a deeper meaning then we know of. no point in getting upset and this is just conversation, not arguing anyways. if you want to argue with someone on their beliefs or opinions then please pm them. everyone have a good day and MTFBWY

Houru Rinia wrote:

jidun wrote:

Now, liberals will be saying take all the guns away... I side with the article below, and said as much, shortly after the shooting.


Guns on campus: One is one too few


57 minutes ago

BLACKSBURG, VA., IS a college town surrounded by countryside full of good ole boys who grew up shooting and hunting. Virginia Tech undoubtedly has a good number of ............................................................ The best defense against such people is to increase the number of armed good guys so that there is always someone nearby able to respond.

See original article at The Union Leader ....<br><br>Post edited by: admin, at: 2007/04/17 22:16

So basically what you are saying is that everyone should carry a weapon to defend yourself against people with weapons? That is madness!

If the United States, or any country for that matter, makes weapons such as pistols, shot guns, or any firearm as easily accessable as they are then they are... you are asking for events such as the Shooting in Virginia or Columbine, Colorado to happen. Violence simply begets more violence... and if you are living in fear of other people and the weapons they could have... you are bound to that state for the rest of your life.

Let go your fear, and your hate... and embrace life. Focus not on the aforementioned, and on your family, friends, and these things that allow you to reach the pinnicle of your existance.

Ya know some people are very naive. I am not saying you are but, look at countries like Darfur where most of it's poor citizens are being DINED on by evil warlords with guns. IF those people owned firearms that entire situation would never have happened.

Ohh, I forgot all these goody two shoes sitting in their fine homes whooping out with their wallets and their prayers, I am sure that is GREAT help to those poor ravaged individuals. Better help would have been to have made sure they were well armed beforehand.

Good people MUST be prepared to do the unthinkable to those who would perform unmentionable horrors upon others. Where kisses and wishes won't stop the evil..... Bullets will.

It's nice in our ivory towers, too bad we can't all be out there in the dirt.

Jedis’ and Gentle Readers:

I’ve been staying with my GrandMother at the hospital since Monday (April 23, 2007). We thought she was only going for an appointment then home but the Doctor ordered her admitted immediately. She requires a 24/7 nurse aid and so that’s been my job; that’s why I took the sudden leave.

MaMaw (born December 14, 1916) is fine now and we’ll be home Monday (4-30-2007) if the Fates allow.

I have to catch up on all the posts for the past week. I’m only home for a few hours before I go back. I decided not to try and read any posts or even log in until I could return to active duty at The Order (I’ve not had computer access available where I’m staying) so I’d have the fun of reading it all at once and besides I’m in no position to give advice as a pastor much less a Jedi who’s tireder than an owl at noon.

Sometimes The Force has other ideas.

My personal backup of all the posts lists the newest post first and goes in reverse order. When I checked the email this post was at the top and I caught the gist of it before I could help it.

I don’t know what’s going on or has been so this is just advice from Old John Henry; A Jedi debates ideas not personalities.

Is this because it makes a better person and that everyone will love you? Hell No! It’s because it’s the most effective. If someone posts something on which you have passionate views and their view is in your mind wrong; are you more likely to win The People over to your theory with a polite concise formal argument, with references and the composure of a professional journalist, or by calling someone a Jedi Bitch?

I’m taking back the part about making a better person. I know it worked for me.

This is from the post by DAN that got me thinking.

“this topic is how do we as individuals feel on this matter. so if someone voices there opinion then listen take it in and voice you're on the topic itself. please do not get mad at people with their opinions, there might be a deeper meaning then we know of. no point in getting upset and this is just conversation, not arguing anyways. if you want to argue with someone on their beliefs or opinions then please pm them. everyone have a good day and MTFBWY”

I can’t wait to get back home and I’ll see y’all Monday.

Peace,

John Henry<br><br>Post edited by: Br. John, at: 2007/04/28 17:13