Brother John on EvilTwin Podcast!

Proteus wrote: Daniel rephrased what he says in the interview regarding being the first church.

First he said that he looked online and there were no other Jedi churches at all, so he decided to start the first one.

Later on, he then says "there were no other Jedi churches doing what we wanted them to do so we made CoJ", and then began trying to use the phase "we are the first to do WHAT WE DO" to replace the (now obviously false) notion that they were the very first Jedi church period.

He essentially went back on what he thought he was going to feed them at the beginning.

I am more curious what church will be standing there in the very end of time as we experience it... :blush: Being the first is not always a guarantee for the future! Being the latest standing is. :dry:

~ Aqua

Listening to part two was quite a bit more painful than part one, but not because it meant listening to Daniel Jones but rather listening to how absurd this whole squabble comes across to people disinterested in being Jedi. I also heard some of the lies Jones continues to perpetuate about CoJ but even though some of us recognize these to be lies, what more can we do? Someone tried to expose the lies of Daniel Jones and the way he runs CoJ and in the end it just made this Temple look like petty, bitter kooks.

I promised to re-assess the comments and positions of people who felt like exposing Jones' lies were important or necessary after I had had some sleep and time to reflect. I get it, I understand why it feels necessary and I wouldn't want people to sign up for something, expecting a real Jediism path and get a lackluster return... Or worse, that they signed up because they believed they were joining the most authentic Jedi experience and instead they're getting something else entirely. I think the biggest issues are a few things:

1. Presentation: the site looks like a conspiracy theory gone wrong.
2. Fact-checking: although I personally need little convincing of the misrepresentation of Jones' facts, I think it's all too easy to make claims meaning one thing and saying another. I don't know if we have any professional journalists at our Temple, but my observation is that half of the process is fact-checking and making sure that claims made by writers is supporting by the sources they have word for word.
3. Individual vs. Founder: As others have pointed out, I feel as though Br. John doesn't have the luxury of a personal opinion. What he shares online may very well be demarcated as his personal opinion or even anonymously, but any time the media gets wind of it it will come back to the Temple because he is the Founder. Is it always fair? No, Br. John should be just as entitled to his personal opinions as everybody else, but that's not going to happen in an age when a couple clicks is all it takes and a little disagreement between one person and a church becomes a scandal

It would be very amusing if Christopher or Jedi Light came out of the wood works to address this whole "Who came first" debate :laugh: Christopher was my first Jedi Master. I do miss them!

Historic Note: Christopher and Jedi Light founders of jediism.org in 2001

I don't give a rats hairy behind as to "who" came first, or why anyone believes it matters, especially in this thread and all the corresponding threads. This needs to stop, he said she said bullshit. It's unbecoming of a Jedi, and I'd like to think we're better than the drama that has landed at our feet. It's just adding to the whole ordeal, and some people are obviously feeding off of it. We're better than this people....

I'm not better than anything or anybody. I'm a human being just like John and so are the rest of you. We don't shame people here. That is why this temple is as cherished as it is. I'm not going to scold Br John for a perfectly human response to something that he has already spent a tremendous amount of time being quiet about something that has been continuously casting a really bad shadow over the belief you all follow with a conviction that CoJ's antics have continuously made a mock of. While I agree that John's approach wasn't one that benefits the temple, it is one that I can and will empathize with because be as humble or whatever as you want, what they do and say does effect the image of that belief you're spending a lot of time with and caring for. Br John cares about that deeply and I appreciate that.

Zenchi wrote: I don't give a rats hairy behind as to "who" came first,

Whether you care or not is Irreverent. What are YOU doing about it? Or are you jut adding to the Hate Spamming?

We're all human. We all make mistakes. The challenge is working together to fix them. Nothing tests the strength of a foundation like an earthquake.

Let's be kind.

Wow. I'm very concerned about some of the things I heard on this podcast.

For one thing I don't think the questions about drugs should have been discussed at all. It sounded like a joke question to begin with and yet it was discussed for several minutes. I don't think there is anything wrong with psychedelic use or the use of marijuna, but I don't know that it is appropriate for our founder to discuss such things publicly. I am glad to hear that there is no problem with the use of such substances. However, I feel that is something that should be taken to a private channel for discussion.

Secondly, I don't see that the Church of Jediism should even have been brought up. No one asked about other Jedi organizations at that point in the interview. There was no lead up to it except what Br. John did himself. Sure, it's shameful that this other organization is lying about their origins and charging money for membership. However, is any of that our problem? We are not affiliated with Church of Jediism in any way of which I am aware. Furthermore, what do we care about the things the media believes? If people want to think Church of Jediism was first let them. I'd rather the place I call home be known as the best than the first. Yes, this is fallacious information being disseminated through the media. Is that really something for us to concern ourselves with? Are we so insecure in our value that we have to attack other "Churches" over something as petty as "we were here first"? It's like a grade-school squabble over the first and best seats in the lunch room.

I don't understand why this subject was brought up in the first place and I don't see any point in giving further attention to this other "Church." Can we let it drop now?

I did not tell this before because I did not want y'all to think I was making excuses. I should have known better. I should not have assumed anything. This was taped to be broadcast later. There was off the record - supposedly off tape - discussion (we discussed several things y'all never heard) and then there was the interview. The part about Jones was me (I thought) talking to them off the record about how nobody in the media fact checks anything he says. I think he could claim a million members with a colony on the moon and they'd publish it without question.

I should have know better.

The good news is I've checked and their audience is extremely small.

I'm not doing any more interviews.

It's good to hear your side John. And I have to say I think the story behind your dog's name is adorable