[Lesson 5] Wary of attachement

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23 Feb 2018 17:31 #316413 by Atticus
Ah, my apologies. I had believed this to be an open discussion.

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23 Feb 2018 17:37 #316414 by User22414

Atticus wrote: Ah, my apologies. I had believed this to be an open discussion.


No apologies needed , i just find it confusing for myself when others enterprit or talk for others , i would rather wait on what she has to say * big smilieface* :laugh:

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23 Feb 2018 18:01 - 23 Feb 2018 18:20 #316416 by Twigga
Huh, just realised I can't spell "Attachment" in the thread title... thanks guys for answering despite! Any sympathetic mod reading this do feel free to edit, as it may make future forum searching easier.

Am I making comparisons? *thinks* I'm pretty sure there are no comparisons being made anywhere in my writing up to this point - but then I wasn't even sure if Serenity was suggesting that I am making comparisons. The "community" comment that I made, which may have lead to some confusion, stems from my personal nature; I believe the personal action is political; that when I make a choice I make a public statement about how I would like the world to be. Being given the huge freedom and pleasure of a life to live entails a responsibility in making that possible for others. "I am an ecologist"... it makes every choice quite radical; even this one, to sit with a tea and discuss attachment amongst friends.

Both Atticus and Serenity use the term "Expectation": "You cannot expect to...."; and the not-necessary-to-explain-because-I-will-need-to-think-about-it-too switch-out between wariness and expectation. I like this nugget of an idea - expectation - and will toss it about a bit in my mental ball park. Thank you both.

That said, if we WERE to discuss comparisons, then yes, I would say having cultivated and constantly maintained attachments would be vital to me in being able to make a "right comparison" - I'm not sure I could make comparisons with attachments with which I relate to only via the medium of "wariness"... and we come now back to the idea of "expectation" - to become even an Initiate here requires a certain commitment, and it would, in my mind, be wrong to place that one over that I have made to Partner - it's been discussed together. "Right" attachment to partner meant I broke off from writing this response to say hello (blah blah) until he was off for Kendo o'clock (I'm still grounded due to an inability to crouch :( ) But if partner, or a government, was to remove my ability to participate in the life of this community at all, that would be to deny human rights... A pretty basic "expectation" Human Rights; but I find them a very good "ruler" on the whole.

Serenity's note on trust is useful, as I believe it speaks to the self-trust you require to weather tough times, the toxic damaging behaviours that are not the person themselves, but something that the person does. Expecting them to weather my black days and for me not to weather theirs would be a sign of prejudice, no?

Oh, and some other writings occurred in the meantime - I only got 2 hands; so do please feel free to discuss between yourselves openly while I am offline - I will come back and clear up any misunderstandings - as an IP study hall I believe this space should be open for all to leap in and say whatever they have on their mind in response to the original post or ensuing discussion :)
Last edit: 23 Feb 2018 18:20 by Twigga. Reason: Life happened in the gap between starting writing this post and "Posting" this post - just responding to that :)

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23 Feb 2018 18:29 #316417 by User22414

Serenity's note on trust is useful, as I believe it speaks to the self-trust you require to weather tough times, the toxic damaging behaviours that are not the person themselves, but something that the person does. Expecting them to weather my black days and for me not to weather theirs would be a sign of prejudice, no?


I understand i think , lol , trust is a very valuable thing , if you trust yourself , you dont need to trust others , i get that , but if untrustworthy behaviour occurs from your partner , or the relationships you are in , and your partner keeps lying , and the community you are in is untrustworthy than you can be as sturdy as steel , one day it will affect you ... you can be there for people in their darkest days even if they are not there for you , you can stand up for people even if they will never stand up for you , you can forgive , but its ever so nice to be forgiven for once ;)

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23 Feb 2018 19:12 #316418 by Twigga

Serenity wrote: its ever so nice to be forgiven for once ;)


Well, there's always self forgiveness - there is a beautiful thread full of it on this site. I can only say I'd rather get my hands dirty with genuine empathy than I would want to give up hope on anyone, or on any community. I just hope I never meet my match. But "one crisis at a time"...
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23 Feb 2018 20:29 - 23 Feb 2018 20:33 #316424 by User22414

Twigga wrote:

Serenity wrote: its ever so nice to be forgiven for once ;)


Well, there's always self forgiveness - there is a beautiful thread full of it on this site. I can only say I'd rather get my hands dirty with genuine empathy than I would want to give up hope on anyone, or on any community. I just hope I never meet my match. But "one crisis at a time"...


Of course you would , but we are not all you are we , i am sensing a strange vibe from you as if you look down on people that give up on things that damage them ....ans i really hope from the bottom of my heart that they never pester you away from a place you love , because i can tell you from experience its heartbreaking.....

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Last edit: 23 Feb 2018 20:33 by User22414.

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23 Feb 2018 22:00 #316427 by Twigga
I am sorry you feel that way Serentiy. I hope I can clarify - my example of an interpersonal relationship was 100% hypothetical. My comment on community is entirely due to a personal belief that when we act even in the most private ways, we can have profound wider political impacts - Ghandi - "Peace between countries must rest on the solid foundation of Love between individuals". My statements have, I think, been clear that theh are based on my own choice of action, not judgement of anyone else's.

All I can do is express my gratitude that life has never pushed me to breaking point, which for me would be failing to hope. It is something I would never wish on anyone.

Still open for any views on the issue of "right" attachment... But then maybe I'm poking this too much. Maybe after IP folks still wrangle with this stuff?
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23 Feb 2018 22:07 #316429 by User22414
Yes i already figured out i misundertood and i did not take the bigger picture in consideration , so i apologize for my rash judgement.

On the right attachement issue i think you have made a good case for how the weakest link can make the whole community suffer but an equally small link can have an enourmous impact on how it can change , i also believe positive change has to come from within,

Thank you for sharing your wisdom with me

*bows*

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23 Feb 2018 22:10 #316431 by Twigga
Truly, I am deeply touched... And I love the facepalming kitteh! :)
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24 Feb 2018 09:14 #316448 by Twigga
I thought of a way I can re-phrase the question that might help. It sounds a bit stupid but:

We're going to have attachments; they're not "bad" things - but I personally can't see how a "right" attachment is possible if you're busy being wary. Can you describe why/how you are able to do "being wary" as well as "doing" loving.

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