Sad Day

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09 Mar 2011 13:42 #37141 by Damion_Storm
Sad Day was created by Damion_Storm
Please let your thoughts and prayers be with a friend of mine and his family. Today my friend Arthur is attending the funeral of his 1 year old cousin that passed away due to persistent health complications. I know that his suffering is over but family is having a very hard time due to the young age.

Rev. Robert Cannon OCP
  • Bishop of TotJO
  • Master Knight of Jediism
Apprentices: None
Former Apprentices: Cynthia, Alexandre Orion, Reliah

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09 Mar 2011 16:37 - 09 Mar 2011 16:40 #37144 by Jon
Replied by Jon on topic Sad Day
I personally have a problem with people who in an attempt to console others churn up what seems to have become a cliche that all is well because with death the suffering has come now to an end. How on earth do these people know that? I certainly don`t. And if you do then tell me all about it, please because I`m certainly curious.

In fact if anyone uses their common sense could not departed loved ones suffer at the loss of a life dear to them if not at seeing family and friends suffer? A funeral is actually, contrary to what many may think, not celebrated for the deceased and their passage to a better life but really to help those left behind let go.

So yes, I certainly will keep Arthur and his family in my intentions so that his cousin can also find his peace.

The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
Last edit: 09 Mar 2011 16:40 by Jon.

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09 Mar 2011 19:41 #37146 by Damion_Storm
Replied by Damion_Storm on topic Sad Day
I have no proof and I believe that the departed do watch over us and can be sad and upset watching their loved ones struggle with the loss. The suffering I was referring to in this situation is the physical pain caused by the sickness. I was raised to believe that when we die we are made whole again because the spirit is not bound by the laws of the physical world. The lame will walk and the blind will see again. The heart however is part of the soul and can not be turned off after passing. As you said Jon I do believe that those that pass still morn our suffering and that I believe is why some cultures celebrate the passing of their loved ones instead of morning.

Rev. Robert Cannon OCP
  • Bishop of TotJO
  • Master Knight of Jediism
Apprentices: None
Former Apprentices: Cynthia, Alexandre Orion, Reliah

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09 Mar 2011 20:11 #37148 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Sad Day


Jon said:

I personally have a problem with people who in an attempt to console others churn up what seems to have become a cliche that all is well because with death the suffering has come now to an end.


you underestimate people's selfishness. They suffer because they see their loved ones suffering. Once they stop seeing that suffering, their suffering ends only to make place to a new kind of suffering: The loved one is dead and they miss him/her. To console people is to put an end to both. \"Suffering stopped, that's a good thing\" is pretty easy to pull, and counts as consolation. The second one.. You can always try to ruin dead people's reputation, but it looks nasty, plus, can't really do that with toddlers.

And why do people want to console others? they see them suffering, so they feel bad and feel that need to console, etc. Selfishness yet again. pulling the cheap \"(s)he isn't suffering anymore\" catch-phrase is really nothing in comparison.





RIP to the kid. There is no death there is the force.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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10 Mar 2011 13:28 #37161 by Jon
Replied by Jon on topic Sad Day
I`m sorry you`ve lost me Ren. My point as Damion seems to have picked up on was that IN THE ACT OF TRYING TO CONSOLE (for whatever reason) others making assumptions about life after death. Believe me Ren after having performed innumerable funerals and conducting intensive talks with relatives and friends I certainly do not underestimate people`s motivations. Your chosen scenario is one of many possibilities which can only really be appreciated by the effected and disreagarded by the passive observer. There seems to be a lot of assumptions floating about whether they be about what happens after death or the motivation of the consolers or why people morn. Your answer of faith Damion is certainly a valid answer.

The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.

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10 Mar 2011 20:25 #37168 by Cynthia
Replied by Cynthia on topic Sad Day
I'm very sorry to hear of his loss. My thoughts and prayers will be with him and his family.

It is hard to lose a family member, especially a child. I've witnessed it first hand in front of my eyes while I was in EMT training. Working in the medical field I have witnessed the pain people endure when they have to bury a child, their pain is undescribable. Very sad situation even though they are \"in a better place\", \"with the force\", however you believe.

Rank: Knight of Jediism
Rite: Abrahamic
Former Master: Damion_Storm

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11 Mar 2011 21:00 #37213 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Sad Day
Sorry about that Jon. I think faster than I write and things tend to look choppy.

I perfectly understand that you were criticizing people for making assumptions when it comes to afterlife. That's not what i was commenting about. I was ranting about the reason people make this kind of assumptions in the first place, the reason for needing to console and be consoled. That reason being selfishness... Not the nasty kind of selfishness, but selfishness nevertheless. A non-Jedi trait. (I know you're on the DS but you know what I'm talking about)
Anyway, my point was that the reason for making the assumptions on afterlife is, imo, a more serious issue than the appropriacy of these assumptions (as you say, they don't know whether the pain stops or not and I totally agree with you about that). Lots of people have beliefs, some include things about a better world after death or something similar, and they have the freedom to express their opinion, even if it is only belief and may not be appropriate. The reason for expressing this belief is even less appropriate.

Sorry for going offtopic.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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