Nature of "the Force" (Light/Dark dicotomy)

I'm glad you posted this Alethea, because it reminded me of the old days. I remember when Dark and Light were clearly defined in the Jedi community, and your choice between the two was not taken lightly.

I remember vaguely the first time I came to the conclusion that Light and Dark were simply things that existed within us, and not as separate entities of the Force. What was amazing was how almost everyone else eventually came to that same conclusion, people I had never spoken to, and yet we were on the same page.

I liken this to the Force communicating and helping us evolve to new ideas. Interestingly enough, I see that happening now. I think we're on the verge of another great realization, and I look forward to seeing its effects.

Iron Wings wrote: Do you mean that we are parasites in the Force or that the Force feeds off of us?

By what he said, it looks like he means that the Force feeds on us...

(Would love to know how he came to that conclusion, though. )

we are only parasites if we take and do not give...the best force followers are symbiotic...they take what is needed and give back what is needed...

I agree, my reading of Khaos' words seem to think that the Force draws off his personal energy... Of all of our personal energies...

And, that this is the cause for it's existence...

If sentient beings didnt exist, would the force?

We say "Yes, of course", but really?

Do we power it with our thoughts somewhat? Just as the power of prayer, and of sending energy, positive, or negative, seems to help?

No, as I reread what I wrote, I see my problem with that...

Where does the energy that allows me to become myself and develop into myself come from? The fuel for my body comes from food and drink, but how about the part of me that isnt physical?

My "id", lol....

Just for the record, although I have stated it many places, I believe simply in the Force....

Remove the colors, in that ying-yang, which are assigned their value by man...

Remove the interior lines, the divisions that, again, are man made, man defined, and you have a circle left...

Finally, remove the line of the circle, because, again, it is man's attention, pinpointed into this circle, and defined there...

After you have removed all of man's influence from that symbol, then you have the Force...

But, why do all that?

If man, and all he creates, and is the Force,

then talking in riddles confuses, confounds, and irritates many, lololol....

Jestor wrote: If sentient beings didnt exist, would the force?

We say "Yes, of course", but really?

I think so, because the Force is an energy field that surrounds, penetrates, and binds, but is not created by, nor is it solely existent in sentient life. Nor, indeed, life in general. The Force exists in us and other animals, but also in trees and grass...but also in rocks and dirt, mountains and ores. The Force is/is in, surrounds/penetrates/binds ALL things. All of existence. So in order for the Force to not exist, everything else would have to go away, too. Even the "vacuum" of space contains dust and other particles for the Force to "dwell" in.

If we did not exist, neither would the Force...because it was humanity which "invented" the concept of the Force. We gave it form and definition. If we were not here to contemplate it, it would no longer matter. It would cease to exist if our language did not exist to give it abstract meaning.

I fully and absolutely believe both of those statements.

Without getting into the realms of RPG at all, I am 100% sure there are civilisations in the universe that also have religion and surely that constitutes a belief in the Force.

(From the Orion Letters)

Tao Te Ching 4

The Tao is like a well:
used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void:
filled with infinite possibilities. It is hidden but always present.
I don't know who gave birth to it.
It is older than God.

"This straightforward passage speaks of the use of the Force. Acting by non-action, or using the natural flow of things to accomplish one's tasks, one is using 'the Force' which is limitless. When we try to 'force' things – our muscles or our minds – we get tired, weak … these forces have limits. The “eternal void” is like Watts' explanation of 'reality' ; it contains no 'things' (see above, Tao Te Ching 1) and as such is imbued with limitless possibilities as to what can come out of it and into what it can manifest. It is ever there, yet one cannot perceive it with one's physical senses (or rather, not the ones we have names for) nor think it with one's mind. It had no beginning, and as such was there before any conception of divinity."

So, as it were, everyone is as right as they are 'not completely right'. But it really doesn't matter ... We are manifestations of the potentiality of the Force. Were there no sentient beings, as some conjecture could be in 'other' universes where conditions for the formation of such manifestations of 'matter' could not form (in any recognisable way to us) there would still be the Force. The Force is before 'being/non-being', and whether or not we can ever learn to use those properties of it, it is yet that we are used by It.

But to return to the original question : although we shall debate it from time to time, there is no dichotomy, no light nor dark, nothing is outside Its "nature" as all "natures" are Its ...

Alluvius wrote:

Jestor wrote: If sentient beings didnt exist, would the force?

We say "Yes, of course", but really?

I think so, because the Force is an energy field that surrounds, penetrates, and binds, but is not created by, nor is it solely existent in sentient life. Nor, indeed, life in general. The Force exists in us and other animals, but also in trees and grass...but also in rocks and dirt, mountains and ores. The Force is/is in, surrounds/penetrates/binds ALL things. All of existence. So in order for the Force to not exist, everything else would have to go away, too. Even the "vacuum" of space contains dust and other particles for the Force to "dwell" in.

If we did not exist, neither would the Force...because it was humanity which "invented" the concept of the Force. We gave it form and definition. If we were not here to contemplate it, it would no longer matter. It would cease to exist if our language did not exist to give it abstract meaning.

I fully and absolutely believe both of those statements.

Upon further reading, Im not sure if that is apparent to any in what I wrote, lol...

I sure muddied the water in my post...

I do agree with what you wrote, Alluvius...

And was trying to say the same thing, only it didnt work out as well.. :woohoo: :blush:

LOL...you're welcome then

(Light/Dark dicotomy)

There is no dichotomy, there is only the Dark... the gradual yet inevitable end to all things.