The Force Explained

Peace and blessing upon you all today.

I am new and I have already found kindred spirits on here. I have more questions than answers. Allow me too explain my view of the force, then people can correct me. I think its crucial to understand the force as a Padawan which is the manifestation of energy within the universe.

1. The force is not universal

The force is infinite, everything and everywhere, but it is not universal. It behaves very differently in an infinite and diverse way.

2. The force cannot be destroyed

The force will be here forever, beyond time and eternal. Although the manifestation of the force is finite and ever-changing

3. All things the force created

We are the products of the force, we ourselves in our current form are finite and limited, but we ourselves are eternal through the force.

4. Divine purpose

If there truly is a higher purpose the Jedi should strive towards it. Such as preserving the stability of life and harmony of all living things. Improving ourselves through our disciplines and perfecting our beliefs.

If there is anyone who knows about the force please send a PM or response. Would love to hear your views of the force.

Love and Light

No one is going to come and correct you. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to view the Force except for to say:

"The Tao that can be told is not the eternal tao, the name that can be named is not the eternal name." (Tao Te Ching 1)
Our very attempt to explain it means we lose things in translation, inevitably. The question you need to ask yourself is not "what view of the Force is "right", but whether your view works for you? because it will be different for others.

Ariane wrote: Would love to hear your views of the force.

Hmmmm, at the moment I'm working with it as some primordial essence ascribed to a mixture of 'wisdom' and 'awareness', and translating that in and/or out to include inanimate material, all as a singular manifold of time. Not necessarily as any form of truth, but just my current view to exercise some personal growth. I'm using awareness as the ground for a moment in time, and wisdom as a measure of accurate manifestation of awareness. In other words I like to keep myself slightly confused
:woohoo:

Thanks for the replies Jedi,

Now lets break this down:

Rosalyn J wrote: No one is going to come and correct you.

Hmm, thanks for posting! But if no one will correct errors, then what is the point to talk about anything on here?

Rosalyn J wrote: There is no "right" or "wrong" way to view the Force

Yes that's true in one sense, but the force is not subjective...

Rosalyn J wrote: Our very attempt to explain it means we lose things in translation, inevitably.

That is like saying "no point trying to learn, because we will make mistakes". There is in when we define the force a "definition" likely an understanding that will grow and change.

Rosalyn J wrote: The question you need to ask yourself is not "what view of the Force is "right", but whether your view works for you?because it will be different for others.

Its like saying "believe whatever you wish": I believe in the 'universal truth', because only a truth that applies to everyone everywhere at all times is correct. Truth doesn't behave randomly when sometimes it is true and other times it is not. We can find within different belief systems a set of ideas, which can be created, and many agree with. But acceptance of the truth doesn't make it correct it is how well it stands up to scrutiny that validates it. You have said that none of the Jedi on here will scrutinise the force!

Adder wrote: primordial essence ascribed to a mixture of 'wisdom' and 'awareness'

Very good, and welcome Adder. If I have grasped what you say, it sounds like you believe the primordial essence was caused by wisdom and sentience itself.

Adder wrote: and translating that in and/or out to include inanimate material, all as a singular manifold of time.

So you may be saying that there is no difference, between conciousness, matter and time. It sounds like you measure thoughts as a physical entity.

Adder wrote: I'm using awareness as the ground for a moment in time,

Conciousness is the present singular moment in time, yet we can remember the past and predict the future. So there are many ways to experience awareness even empathy, and love.

Adder wrote: wisdom as a measure of accurate manifestation of awareness.

I understand that wisdom is a manifestation of awareness. Just as much as matter is a manifestation of the force.

Thanks for your feedback lets delve deeper into the force, and contribute.

Well, may I be frank and suggest that you are not the first to attempt to have this discussion? Not on this forum and not in the larger community which comprises many other forums and small groups. That's why I know for certain we wont get a "right" answer

I stand by what I said in my first post here, but let me elaborate:

When we talk about "scrutinizing the Force" we're asking questions like "what is it?" and "how does it work?" and "how do I work with it?" right? We want to distill it down to its barest bones, but frankly, not only is that impossible, its also impractical.

Instead of talking about something we can't see, lets talk about something we can: a tree.

We can answer: what is it (in a sense)? we can answer how does it work (in a sense)? and we can answer how do I work with it (in a sense) ? but none of these answers help us to live with the tree any better than our ancestors who didn't have all the science behind trees and how they operated. In fact, our ancestors were better in their interactions with the trees then we are now. We've given names and characteristics to all life on this planet, but we don't live any better.

And to take the analogy further, whose definition of tree is right? Is it the English or the Spanish or the French? They could all be the same, but they may not be.

Here is a fundamental problem with trying to "scrutinize the Force". Its not a math problem or a lab experiment. Its too big to wrap our brains around. We wont get one answer and shout "Eureka! Ive got it." We can't even do that with the things we know.

I'll be flippant and say "The Force is the Force, Of course of course" and it doesn't make sense now, but it will later.

Ariane wrote:

Adder wrote: primordial essence ascribed to a mixture of 'wisdom' and 'awareness'

Very good, and welcome Adder. If I have grasped what you say, it sounds like you believe the primordial essence was caused by wisdom and sentience itself.

Hello and welcome to the Temple!!! I'm not considering the cause or origin, at least not yet. I consider it primordial so to represent a dislocation from the passage of time - since I try and understand time as an influence on the 'shape' of it (the Force).

Ariane wrote:

Adder wrote: and translating that in and/or out to include inanimate material, all as a singular manifold of time.

So you may be saying that there is no difference, between conciousness, matter and time. It sounds like you measure thoughts as a physical entity.

Yes, for the purposes of my Jedi path everything is made of the Force, and awareness is probably the product of complexity in the Force itself (and thus incl. matter), where wisdom is a specific type of awareness which can relate to its essence through its relationship with time (again by virtue of its particular complexity).

Ariane wrote:

Adder wrote: I'm using awareness as the ground for a moment in time,

Conciousness is the present singular moment in time, yet we can remember the past and predict the future. So there are many ways to experience awareness even empathy, and love.

Memories to me are emotional representations of past experiences (with degrees of sensory involvement), but they still occur in the present moment.

I like to think the awareness and emergence of wisdom is based on a self-referential nature, which much like memory itself can carry over information to understand it's present moment by learning from its past, and thus also understand the passage of time to reach for to expectations of a future ie perhaps the fundamental process of awareness.

Ariane wrote:

Adder wrote: wisdom as a measure of accurate manifestation of awareness.

I understand that wisdom is a manifestation of awareness. Just as much as matter is a manifestation of the force.

Matter more broadly I interpret in different time dilations, so what might appear inanimate to us at a different rate of time might become part of a system which is animate. I try to do this whilst avoiding anthropomorphism of the concept, and as mentioned its not intended to be true, just what I'm working with at the moment. Saying all that, sometimes its really useful/important to not have any conceptualization at all!!

Wow!

Thanks for your posts Rosalyn J. This is both brilliant feedback and informative. It really helps me make sense of the Jedi path. As I said its important for me to understand what this 'force' is and what we are referring to. But let me also say that your a good teacher and that I understand now, that any understanding of the complexity of the force, may be a negative for the Jedi. But also that I can now meditate on your answer.

Meditation on the larger picture, is crucial for my spiritual development. But that it can be superfluous to my ability to act as a Jedi.

Thanks and Keep posting your ideas of what the force means to you. May the force be with you.

Love and Light xx

Adder wrote: Matter more broadly I interpret in different time dilations

Adder, I like how you have the present awareness of the material universe as a moving construct within space time. Your words are like a puzzle that reveals itself slowly within my cosmic understanding. I never really looked at it that way as such.

The film, Interstellar. Which you Adder you should see since that is about time dilation. I wont dissect your answer since, in my humble opinion I believe I have much to meditate upon. But i may give a response soon. We covered everything to the limit of my knowledge.

Love and Light xx

No nouns. Only verbs... all of it.

Your posts warranted a good response so here it is:

Rosalyn J wrote: Well, may I be frank and suggest that you are not the first to attempt to have this discussion? Not on this forum and not in the larger community which comprises many other forums and small groups. That's why I know for certain we wont get a "right" answer

This may be a straw-man argument, but I had to respond, this is so fatalistic. Don't do something because you will fail. This is the fun of higher awareness. We conceptualise for our own enjoyment and we may refine our ideas for practical purposes which humans are adept at.

Rosalyn J wrote: When we talk about "scrutinizing the Force" we're asking questions like "what is it?" and "how does it work?" and "how do I work with it?" right? We want to distil it down to its barest bones, but frankly, not only is that impossible, its also impractical.

Umm i don't agree, this is purely your opinion. Besides were debating scrutinising the force rather than scrutinising the force. The idea is to cast of our illusions of the force to see the truth. I will give you an example of the 'truth' behind our ability as humans within the force, we are able to control our body to manipulate the force, humans have been doing it for thousands of years and were getting better at it.

Rosalyn J wrote: but none of these answers help us to live with the tree any better than our ancestors who didn't have all the science behind trees and how they operated. In fact, our ancestors were better in their interactions with the trees then we are now. We've given names and characteristics to all life on this planet, but we don't live any better.

That is simply not true i am not saying we humans are in harmony with the force or nature or the world but our ancestors gave us the key to unlocking the force and the truth. Its our turn to enhance that knowledge.

Rosalyn J wrote: And to take the analogy further, whose definition of tree is right? Is it the English or the Spanish or the French? They could all be the same, but they may not be.

Semantics! Doesn't matter how you describe something, in whatever language, the truth is still the truth. It only matters what you do with your 'understanding'. What you do with your knowledge. If it compels you to create or love and show compassion and how you understand is key to how you act and what you do with it, is all that matters.

Rosalyn J wrote: Here is a fundamental problem with trying to "scrutinize the Force". Its not a math problem or a lab experiment. Its too big to wrap our brains around. We wont get one answer and shout "Eureka! Ive got it." We can't even do that with the things we know.

You seem very "why try so don't bother", we are curious because its difficult.