Do you get nervous invoking gods?

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30 Jan 2019 15:35 #333322 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Yabuturtle wrote: Actually no I don't have it backwards

When your calling in something it doesn't hurt to meditate to take extra precautions anyway even if it involves evoking

I spoke to a lot of wiccans and druids and read other books and hardly do they mention "Evoking" Lots of invocations though but probably because you get confused because many use them interchangeably when in fact they are different.



I do not have them backwards and yes, they are very different and they are not used interchangeably except by those that are uninformed about their nature. I dare say those you spoke to have read a few llewellen books or are self taught eclectic practitioners and really have little idea what they are doing.

Invocation: is a process in which a person, acting as a single individual, allows an aspect of divinity that is called as a god-form to enter her or his body. To call upon a higher power for assistance, to appeal to, petition, to call for earnestly, solicit, to summon with incantations, conjure, or to cite in support or justification for ones cause.

Evocation: is a process in which a person or group invites an aspect of divinity, such as an Elemental or directional guardian, or a specific God-form, into the working space as defined commonly by ritual.

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30 Jan 2019 15:47 #333326 by Zephyrus
There's a young adult fantasy series called The Bartimaeus Trilogy. In it, the magicians are extremely paranoid and afraid of demons. As such, their summoning spells come with safe guards. And, the slightest wrongly uttered word or smeared chalk circle could lead to the death of a magician.

The demons all want to kill the magicians. Why wouldn't they? Humans are mortal and weak.

How would this be any different in our lives? If we call upon the supernatural (which I don't believe in so I used a fictional example), then shouldn't we realize how much stronger they are?

Yeah, if I were in the habit of asking gods to do stuff, I would be scared out of my skin. In fact, I feel like if it were real, you'd have to be like the magicians in Stroud's Bartimaeus Trilogy: years of training, a healthy dose of fear, and a lot of precaution.

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30 Jan 2019 18:23 #333332 by Yabuturtle
I know some get it confused with invoking and evoking and when they are evoking something they are actually invoking it and vice versa so it gets confusing. If you invite something within your self it seems like it takes less effort than to actually conjure it from wherever it came from. I've seen many rituals about it and usually evoking is more elaborate and complicated and there's a lot of things you need to do before doing it.

I'm getting into it but it also depends on what you're bringing in? A being that is known to be benevolent and forgiving or a being that is known to be hostile. There have been some that try to dominate whatever spirit they get and sometimes they succeed but it's like the equivalent of trying to restrain a tiger. You may be able to but might get attacked to because your making it do something against it's will.

I tend to follow these things by the letter when doing something and in order even if it isn't fully necessary just in case. Don't want to make the same mistake my brother did.

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30 Jan 2019 20:28 #333337 by Omhu Cuspor
The fluid nature of our language can trip us up here.

Merriam-Webster assigns the definition "to call forth" to both the word "Invoke" and "evoke". Since most of us here probably interact with the world at large - where these words are interchangeable - and members of the pagan community where they have distinct meanings, we have insure we are expressing ourselves properly and do not get mired in our own confusing syntax.

I studied casually for a time with a shaman whose training was traceable back to indigenous shamans of Peru. In each ceremony I witnesses, the spirits of the four directions were called, and the appeal "please be with us" was spoken. I never saw a hint of a request to "please be in us". I do think the former is safer, if we are relative newbies and on what for us is untrodden ground.

In terms of nervousness or fear, I keep thinking of electricity as a metaphor. A licensed electrician who's wired many homes probably isn't too nervous about dealing with electricity. An apprentice s/he is training might be slightly nervous, but not overly so because of being under the watchful eye of someone more experienced. It makes sense for just about anyone else to be more nervous, as the consequences of a misstep and the likelihood of one occurring are both high.
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30 Jan 2019 20:33 #333338 by Yabuturtle
It's understandable to deal with forces such as this and be a little nervous until you master it. Even though the books I read usually don't involve drastic consequences should one fail. You just may not get the results you want. It's simple but effective and would like a teacher but the likely hood of me encountering someone who teaches something like this is not likely. Of course there's online teaching but with these things it's much better to be with them in person and I know some may charge for services but I haven't the luck to befriend anyone who'd teach me and the only one who was willing to teach me was my brother who unfortunately followed a darker more hostile path, a path I rejected as I wanted nothing to do with it.

I wanted something that involved something more natural and less hostile and allowed me to work with beings and not command them.
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31 Jan 2019 05:47 #333354 by Gisteron
The thing is that you are not in fact dealing with "such forces" of any kind at all. What you are dealing, and struggling, with, is - pardon the expression - your own demons. That's why vigilance is so important, because otherwise one can delude oneself into unfounded fears like this. It's one of the consequences of uncritically going with what ever one's own or anyone else's gut tells one, and then decide that no reason shall ever move one off that position arrived at through no reason, because one thinks just that much of those intuitions.

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31 Jan 2019 12:27 #333368 by JLSpinner

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Yabuturtle wrote: Actually no I don't have it backwards

When your calling in something it doesn't hurt to meditate to take extra precautions anyway even if it involves evoking

I spoke to a lot of wiccans and druids and read other books and hardly do they mention "Evoking" Lots of invocations though but probably because you get confused because many use them interchangeably when in fact they are different.



I do not have them backwards and yes, they are very different and they are not used interchangeably except by those that are uninformed about their nature. I dare say those you spoke to have read a few llewellen books or are self taught eclectic practitioners and really have little idea what they are doing.

Invocation: is a process in which a person, acting as a single individual, allows an aspect of divinity that is called as a god-form to enter her or his body. To call upon a higher power for assistance, to appeal to, petition, to call for earnestly, solicit, to summon with incantations, conjure, or to cite in support or justification for ones cause.

Evocation: is a process in which a person or group invites an aspect of divinity, such as an Elemental or directional guardian, or a specific God-form, into the working space as defined commonly by ritual.


The definition is correct(invocation = invite inside, evocation = call forth into presence) but the fear really isn't warranted. Almost every religion has the practice of invocation. And it is actually so close to every religion that I could probably get away with saying every religion.


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06 Feb 2019 14:39 #333789 by Lykeios
In my religious/spiritual tradition it is actually "sinful" to have excessive or irrational fear of the Gods. We are to stand before them facing them boldly. For if we can't do that then why are we approaching them at all?

The Gods, as far as I can tell, are far to powerful and far too busy to care much if you flub one of your rituals.

I suppose it might be somewhat intimidating to stand before them...but that fades with time and familiarity.

"I sae rantingly, an sae dauntingly, sae wantonly gaed he. He played a tune and he danced all aroond below the gallows tree."

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06 Feb 2019 17:37 #333801 by Kasumi
I think it helps to remember that they can always see us.

But overall, on days when I'm a theist, I believe that we are the beloved children of the gods. Any deity worth worshiping isn't looking for excuses to fly into a rage just like any good parent isn't. No, if your kid shows up with a crayon drawing and your name misspelled, you put it on the fridge. Super-messy peanut butter sandwich? Best lunch ever! The gods view our honest mistakes much the same way.

This isn't to say "nothing you do matters to them". But if you mispronounce some Latin or Japanese, or you don't know the traditional way to formulate a prayer, or whatever? Are you doing your best? Then it's gonna be fine.

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I do not fight for gain or loss, am not concerned with strength or weakness, and neither advance a step nor retreat a step. ~Takuan

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