French move to ban prostitution by punishing clien

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16047284


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Another r*tarded law if you ask me.

Like in the Netherlands, where its legal to buy or sel soft drugs, but illegal to grow them...


Allowing prostitutes, but not allowing someone to visit them...

Like it said in the article, this will just mean those women will take greater risks cause they have no other choice...

Obviously prostitution has its down sides...forced labour and human traficking and all. But if someone wants to make a living having sex with complete strangers, then who are we to forbid such a thing.

No-one else gets hurt in the process...she gets paid he gets laid. Better then having sexual frustrated men out on the street. In which case they might even decide to rape someone to meet their urges.

Obviously prostitution has its down sides...forced labour and human traficking and all.

This only happens because the sector is not well regulated (thanks to prohibition). The same thing could happen to farm and factory workers.(And does happen in some countries).

But if someone wants to make a living having sex with complete strangers, then who are we to forbid such a thing.

The issue with such a law is that it dictates under what circumstances people can have sex. If I look at the great many middle age men I've worked with, They got married, paid for the stay-at-home wife, got divorced, and moaned everyday at having to still pay her and getting no sex... Reminds you of anything? :laugh:

No-one else gets hurt in the process...she gets paid he gets laid.

There's a LOT of male prostitutes.

Better then having sexual frustrated men out on the street. In which case they might even decide to rape someone to meet their urges.

I actually believe this is a problem. Men (normally)have a physiological need for sex that women (normally) do not have. Although I do not think we'd witness a hike in (actual) rape cases, I'm sure there would be more improprieties at the work place for instance.


Also, I have never used a prostitute's services so I'm not well aware of their work ethics or real safety issues, problems with the authorities, etc, but I think cooperative brothels are the way forward. Multiple workers at a fixed adress = increased security, no issues with public order or safety relating to dark streets, can shut the door when necessary, hire one of them gigantic bouncers and get rid of pimps and madams.

Prostitution is not a safe line of work between guys who strangle them and kill them at the end or pimps beating them reguraly that is a great reason why it's illegal. In America we have cops who dress as prostitutes and nab up the johns to make people afraid to try it which means less demand and the supply leaves the area. Now if it was a safe set up with CLEAN tricks and johns to prevent stds that a lot of prostitutes are infected with by the johns then I can see it more so legal but until there is a system to keep away stds and run it as a respectable business with security it won't be legalized (at least here in the us at least)

There's a LOT of male prostitutes.

lol im sure there are. I've only seen female ones in Amsterdam so far tho. Prefer it that way

I'll just change it to 'he/she get paid, he/she gets laid'

Also, I have never used a prostitute's services so I'm not well aware of their work ethics or real safety issues, problems with the authorities, etc, but I think cooperative brothels are the way forward. Multiple workers at a fixed adress = increased security, no issues with public order or safety relating to dark streets, can shut the door when necessary, hire one of them gigantic bouncers and get rid of pimps and madams.

Yes I agree. This is also already happening for some part. Best way is to simply map the places and people who work in that sector...

You'll always keep forced/illegal prostitution, but by providing a non illegal alternative you can keep it to a minimum.

Nameless3450 wrote: Prostitution is not a safe line of work between guys who strangle them and kill them at the end or pimps beating them reguraly that is a great reason why it's illegal.

Read:

However, France's sex workers' trade union, Strass, has called a rally outside parliament to oppose the proposed bill.

It draws a clear distinction between consensual prostitution and sexual trafficking and fears that a reduction in clients might drive prostitutes to accept riskier transactions.

There is a difference between forced prostitution and prostitution.

Who are you to say what someone should and shouldn't do with their own bodies?

There are inherent risks in everything we do.

I do not make policy nor would I wish to. Seeing how I have no experience with the matter of prostitution; I can pass no informed judgment.

I have no experience not because the opportunity has never presented itself, but because I do not approve of the profession. That is no more than a personal judgment call. And it is mine to make.
The real crime is when we impose our own opinions on others.

People can argue reasons and find supporting data to reinforce their positions till the cows come home. But, they are still just attempting to force their will upon others.

It is said that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Prostitution is not a safe line of work between guys who strangle them and kill them at the end or pimps beating them reguraly that is a great reason why it's illegal.

Hmm I didn't know people didn't get beaten, strangled or killed in the US. Prohibition works.

Now if it was a safe set up with CLEAN tricks and johns to prevent stds that a lot of prostitutes are infected with by the johns then I can see it more so legal but until there is a system to keep away stds and run it as a respectable business with security it won't be legalized (at least here in the us at least)

You should get out more. There are condoms... And you can't setup a business with security if the product you're selling is prohibited.

In parts of the US state of Nevada prostitution is legal. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada

Here's what Jerri Blank has to say on the subject.

From Strangers With Candy

See http://jerriblank.com/swcquotes.html

Yeah nameless I'm sorry but a lot of the "negatives" of prostitution only exist because of it's prohibition. It's the same way with marijuana.

Yeah prostitutes do get murdered (in america, where it's illegal) and beaten and raped and all these things, and pimps do run the whole scene and abuse their women, but all that happens because they do not have an avenue to go and fix these things. They can't complain to the cops because they get thrown in jail, can't go to the labor board because their "job" is illegal, so they have no options and this violence all occurs. You legalize it, regulate it, and put in rules, then you can start having the clean and safe prostitution business. Legalization would have to come first though.

Its legal in Australia, but with rules, AFAIK they are not allowed to 'walk the streets'. It doesnt make the news here at all, except perhaps once every 10 years when some lunatic murders one.

Akkarin wrote:

Nameless3450 wrote: Prostitution is not a safe line of work between guys who strangle them and kill them at the end or pimps beating them reguraly that is a great reason why it's illegal.

Read:

However, France's sex workers' trade union, Strass, has called a rally outside parliament to oppose the proposed bill.

It draws a clear distinction between consensual prostitution and sexual trafficking and fears that a reduction in clients might drive prostitutes to accept riskier transactions.

There is a difference between forced prostitution and prostitution.

Who are you to say what someone should and shouldn't do with their own bodies?

These two things are completely not related. I am talking about the guys who strangle hookers and kill them and your talking about trafficking.

And everyone who says its their body and such. The ammount of these girls who are infected with HIV and Aids from previous Johns that pass it off to new clients is ridiculous to allow. It is different when it is some girl who is open to anything that sleeps with 40 guys in her life time compared to someone who sleeps with 100s and pass it on without telling. This in turn goes into the families homes, inherited through birth, and so on. It is easier to keep these diseases down when it isn't legal for someone just to go out and pay.

Read this concerning the physical danger involved:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,234078,00.html
That is just Atlantic city, now every city within the 50 states.

And this is in a coutry that it is illegal and it would only get worse if its legal and you have a rise in numbers with the legalization as anybody who is anybody would sell their body on the street.

I dont think the people who are so quick to say "let it be legal" have actually been in those types of neighborhoods and talked to the people within it. Not saying thats bad but there is only half the story when you are sheltered from areas that are large in prostitution and other vices. There is so many risks why allow it to escalate. I think when you guys say "Let it be legal" you are just thinking "hey sex for money sweet" but in reality it is a very dangerous thing and increases all sorts of things. Increase in prostitutes can also increase in murder (pimps an johns killing girls or at the very least beating them) drugs increase (and I am not talking about pot I am talking of coke, especially meth, and especially crack,) and all that has a direct effect of crime. I have seen enough prostitutes across america and seen enough pimps and talked to enough of the people who supply them to directly know this without some wikipedia or google site telling me this. This is America idk about any other country because I stick within mine but if it is the same way there maybe making it illegal is the best option.

This is my opinion from my experience with talking to these kinds of people and living in these type of enviroments and honestly if you haven't ever lived in projects or drug type neighborhoods you really don't know all that much that is involved in these kind of vices other than what news tell you and what some uneducated site made by some rich boy can tell you off from google who says "prostitution is good!"

ren wrote:

Prostitution is not a safe line of work between guys who strangle them and kill them at the end or pimps beating them reguraly that is a great reason why it's illegal.

Hmm I didn't know people didn't get beaten, strangled or killed in the US. Prohibition works.

Now if it was a safe set up with CLEAN tricks and johns to prevent stds that a lot of prostitutes are infected with by the johns then I can see it more so legal but until there is a system to keep away stds and run it as a respectable business with security it won't be legalized (at least here in the us at least)

You should get out more. There are condoms... And you can't setup a business with security if the product you're selling is prohibited.

Yeah and why add to those numbers? Especially needlessly? People are killed everyday everywhere but how easy is it to get someone in your car willingly and willingly take them without a peep to a dark alley far from people? Saying someone dies from alcohol related injuries is one thing, but legalizing drunk driving doesn't help the numbers.

You kidding me a man is still able to get an STD with a condom on. It only reduces risk not completely prevents it. To say that is like playing russian roulette

Here I even found this to prove a point:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080817095834AAT0Sud

They even teach that is sex ed in middle school and high school.

Coryduran wrote: Yeah nameless I'm sorry but a lot of the "negatives" of prostitution only exist because of it's prohibition. It's the same way with marijuana.

Yeah prostitutes do get murdered (in america, where it's illegal) and beaten and raped and all these things, and pimps do run the whole scene and abuse their women, but all that happens because they do not have an avenue to go and fix these things. They can't complain to the cops because they get thrown in jail, can't go to the labor board because their "job" is illegal, so they have no options and this violence all occurs. You legalize it, regulate it, and put in rules, then you can start having the clean and safe prostitution business. Legalization would have to come first though.

most prostitutes have dealings with cops all the time. They catch you once they know your name for life. They talk to them all the time and know them by name. It isn't exactly "hide from the cops" job its a more "dont get caught while doing it" job

Nameless3450, I think its one of those things which will continue to exist even if it is illegal. Legalization cleans it up to a large extent but it doesnt change the fact that the more people you sleep with the more exposure you'll have to potential problems. Some guys can get a little loopy without some good lovin now and then. Whats the alternative since making it illegal clearly doesnt work?

Nameless stop it with prostitutes and HIV. I have regular dealings in Zimbabwe, where prostitution is prohibited. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Adder wrote: Nameless3450, I think its one of those things which will continue to exist even if it is illegal. Legalization cleans it up to a large extent but it doesnt change the fact that the more people you sleep with the more exposure you'll have to potential problems. Some guys can get a little loopy without some good lovin now and then. Whats the alternative since making it illegal clearly doesnt work?

Listen I respect prostitutes and hitmen (the told oldest jobs in existance and people I have talked to on informal occasions) their job is their job and they pay for their kids food with this and they will be in existance until the end of man. But pushing for legalization for either of them is a horrible idea in my book, don't make things worse than they already are. I mean I once met a respectable Madam during a dinner with a old family friend of mine back in Manitou Springs, CO. She was nice and very sociable and so was her husband (I didn't know she ran a brothel until after dinner talking to my friend.) Respecting is one thing tho when you look at the big picture the legalization will just make the line that much smaller and that much easier to cross with everything. Keeping it outlawed (noticed how I never said stricter laws) is the best bet on stopping a full on epidemic of crime.

As for the guys going loopy alot of these guys have wives at home but they choose to hurt these girls. And besides I know a great way for any guy to not go so loopy, I'll give you a hint you type with it. They have no problems in that loopiness aspect because they already make the exchange and such and kill the girl afterwards most of the time.

ren wrote: Nameless stop it with prostitutes and HIV. I have regular dealings in Zimbabwe, where prostitution is prohibited. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Zimbabwe is a completely different country and I don't even see what you are trying to draw into eyesight with this statement. What does Zimbabwe prostitutes have to do with anything? And how do they relate to STDs? And how are you so much more knowledgeable than me?

The prevention of rape or murder of a prostitute has nothing to do with the legality of prostitution itself but everything to do with the state of mind of the perpetrator. If someone's gonna do it, they'll do it whatever the situation. If brothels and sex workers were officially regulated (through legalisation), surely their workplace environments would be safer. I mean, the Risk Assessment requirements for spillages alone must be worth it...

Anytime and every time that a government uses prohibition to regulate morality or normal human behavior it's a disaster and makes matters worse.

An intoxicated driver is out there without the consent of the other drivers and poses a danger to the general public. This is not a situation of mutual consent. Comparing Driving While Intoxicated with prostitution is a false analogy.

If brothels were licensed and regulated like they are in parts of Nevada things would be much safer for both the buyer and the seller. A customer in a brothel with security close at hand is going to have a much harder time harming anyone than in a picking up someone on the street scenario.

It's the illegality of the situation that causes so much of the problems and gives those out to do evil such good opportunities.

I'm just past half a century old (51), I'm not stupid (at least according to Mensa) and what I see is this; apparently what we learn from history is that we don't learn from history.