North Korea

What do you think about the situation between the United States and North Korea?

I think they are both being utterly stupid and i cant believe how stupid really , the level of stupid is too high for me , here in Europe we are just shaking our heads and hope they shape up , in war everybody loses This is a pissing contest that could have cathastrophic consequenses.

I'm not sure both are being stupid. The US is just reacting the N Korea's raw aggression.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I'm not sure both are being stupid. The US is just reacting the N Korea's raw aggression.

Maybe then they should start responding rather than reacting , US could just ignore them could not they ...

Amyntas wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I'm not sure both are being stupid. The US is just reacting the N Korea's raw aggression.

Maybe then they should start responding rather than reacting , US could just ignore them could not they ...

Can you ignore a shot fired in front of your or your friend's houses? No you cannot which is what they are doing. They are firing missiles close to and threatening people and that is not something one should ignore. Because if they did say strike Japan or South Korea who would it be said should have done something? I guarantee the US would get crap for not taking these threats seriously.

I view it as two children with brand new slingshots, each threatening the other but knowing mommy will take away their slingshots and ground them if they use them.

(For this allegory, mommy is the UN. )

NATO has safegaurds in place to protect against NK attack. If they move, we stop the weapon and NK becomes target practise for the UN, which NK knows and they wouldn't be that stupid.

And again, if the USA moves, the UN is watching. Same thing will happen.

Essentially, they're each off their leashes but in fenced yards. First one to bite gets a nice tight collar for a LONG time.

The U.N. will only be left cleaning up the mess after a n korean nuclear strike. The US is the only force on the planet that will take the necessary steps to prevent such a disaster before it happens. Hate it or love it is irrelevant. It's just a fact.

To understand the situation better, take a look into international food aid an monetary assistance to North Korea since the early 1990s, and perhaps look at the "aggression" episodes North Korea goes through. A studious eye will notice an interesting pattern develop over the past about 3 decades.

Take note that the benefactors and the targets of North Korea tend to be one in the same.

Allegory or not, we are looking at international relations playing out that equates to a rattlesnake and an eagle (that is a symbolic reference that just tends to have practical use here). In this case, however, the eagle often brings field mice and other such morsels to sustain the snake, but every time they get hungry, rather than waiting for the eagle to return the snake threatens to bite the eagle unless it brings a fatter mouse next time. The eagle is growing weary of this relationship and has basically put the snake on notice that it could kill the snake at any moment, as its kind is known to do (YouTube videos for that if you care to), but the eagle would far rather prefer that the snake simply continue to accept the mice here and there without the threatening attitude.

There is an adage, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you", which seems to not be translatable into Korean, or at least is not commonly understood north of the 38th parallel.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: The U.N. will only be left cleaning up the mess after a n korean nuclear strike. The US is the only force on the planet that will take the necessary steps to prevent such a disaster before it happens. Hate it or love it is irrelevant. It's just a fact.

By "cleaning up the mess", I imagine you are referring primarily to the 20 million person refugee crises a conflict on the Korean peninsula would immediately carry?

Look at the challenges Europe and the UN, NATO, or any other international organization has had with the roughly 5 million Syrian refugees displaced in their current conflict...then consider the current North Korean population of between 20-25 million.

Take note that China shares a major border with North Korea, has historically been closely tied to their neighbor, but is not interested in housing, clothing, and feeding the entire population of that country, AND they hold a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, which you can bet will readily veto any resolution contrary to those designs.

I like Sam's breakdown. The US often acts like no one else could possibly be trust to have WMDs but right now, because of the current white house, we're seeing in real-time how the existence of WMDs are dangerous, even in US hands because *IF* the president can strike, absent a declaration from congress, the reactions that can trigger are possibly world ending existential threats.

I would also have to agree that these are two "boys with toys" to quote the James Bond movie Golden Eye. Neither wants to be outdone and Trump really doesn't have the maturity to deal with someone who is immature or the complex logic to understand unintended consequences. Everything he does, it's all about direct reaction. He thought everything Obama did was wrong because he doesn't understand that you can't just do what you want because you have the power. What you do, as president, affects large groups of people. And most often giving to one group means taking from another.

I think Sam's right about the Kim regime. In their minds they need nukes as leverage. They see the leverage the US has, as a superpower, and the US was all to quick to remind them just how wonderful it is to have nukes because you can use them to intimidate other leaders and either bully your way into getting what you want or at least using your physical power as leverage in economic deals. Trump has already offered to make a better deal with China for helping to deal with the threat of N. Korea. China could simply take that deal and use that deal to offer N. Korea more money. But then you're feeding that snake again and its already grown to the point where it could hurt the eagle.

No one thinks the snake would win but that's not the issue. Even one bite from this snake is one too many. Both leaders need to understand that these are real people that would be killed, not just pieces on a chess table. I don't think Kim necessarily plans to use that power. I think maybe he just wants to have it as protection. And with his "god-like" status, worshipped by his people, he cannot afford to appear weak and perhaps... he has drunken a little too much of his own koolaid and believes they would be successful against any foe. When battling against someone's beliefs... I think its really hard to frame everything in rational/logical terms. Would Kim even respect the UN?