Europe under attack again

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22 Mar 2016 20:52 - 22 Mar 2016 20:55 #235231 by Yugen
Replied by Yugen on topic Europe under attack again
I would say that this, as well as all other times when humans loose their lives for no reason, is an attack on human freedom and the human race. And this only proves to what unthinkable limits these individuals are willing to go to in order to reach their selfish goals.

It is truly terrible..

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Last edit: 22 Mar 2016 20:55 by Yugen.
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22 Mar 2016 22:36 - 22 Mar 2016 23:22 #235245 by Adder

The promise of division is used as a rallying cry by this extremist organization, and others like it. At this point, we're really just driving people into their ranks.


That is exactly the reason they fuel a cycle of violence. The rest of the World responding with force is exactly what they want, but on other hand its impractical to just turn the other cheek all the time. Buying into that is supporting the misinformation that terrorists use to grow their ranks - there is a difference.

We cannot isolate one side for blame by looking at the past, it has to be understood as individual players acting with outcomes in the present, and using those past behaviours to understand the natures of future threats. The discussion isn't about who might be more justified in violence, that would be a massive waste of time and impossible to come to any practically accurate conclusion.

Remember lots of countries suffered the growing pains of the rise of humanity, Germany was wiped out, Japan got nuked, the Cold War saw nations used as geopolitical pawns by both sides, hundreds of millions killed for believing the "wrong" thing etc. So it's not the past which defines these nations, it is their capacity to move forward in a way which accepts the things listed in documents like the UNs UDHR, and some of the core elements of our Doctrine. There is unlimited resources in the past if people want to construct a victim mentality for bad things (which often didn't even happen to them), not just people in the Middle East - but that approach leads to hatred, suffering, stagnation, decay etc.

I reckon understanding the cycle of violence has to be kept true to the causal chain, and its those who want the cycle to continue, and fuel it to that end where fault must lay. As you point out, terrorists want the cycle of violence to escalate. In Belgium, it is only the fault of the people who supported the creation and detonation of the bombs, for example. I don't think its useful to blame the people who feel they have no choice but to use violence to try and stop the cycle - it is why the law of war focuses on assessment of violent action to be proportionate, have clear distinction and be necessary to that end, and the military study, train and are held to account for acting in accordance with it. Terrorists do the opposite -they act out of proportion to the threat (civilians are not a threat), do not distinguish between combatants and non-combatants (target civilians!), and act at soft targets which do not have capacity to threaten them (to create fear, mistrust in authority). Terrorism is not war, its just organized crime of a political nature.

As silly as it sounds, it boils down to there being the good guys wanting to stop violence and create a peaceful successful society, and the bad guys who want to create violence so they can exert their own nature of society. Now as an individual we can all assess which outcome we'd prefer and align our views according to how that side sees the world, because good and bad are subjective, but if viewed in terms of human suffering and trying to for some universal 'improvement' in living, the choice becomes obvious I think. Remembering its the decisions and actions which define someone, not their excuses.

The sad thing is the only reason terrorism exists is because we have the freedom's to allow it. Perhaps they do not realize that the rest of the World can move to a tighter more controlled society without loosing our core values, it is just we'd rather not.... but I don't think they think it through that much, considering if they really want the future to be the past, then they must have little to zero creativity, hope and since curiosity seems to be on the most powerful things in driving brain health, probably not the most switched on chickens in the roost. Should violent Islamic extremism be viewed a mental health crisis!!!!
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Last edit: 22 Mar 2016 23:22 by Adder.
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23 Mar 2016 00:57 #235267 by RyuJin
Replied by RyuJin on topic Europe under attack again
it's the victim mentality that has one ask "why us?" or "what did we do?"....it's not us, it's not something we did...it's something someone else did, it's a decision someone else made....

and now a quote that just sprang to mind: "my name is indigo montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die"

a man seeking revenge against another man for the death of a third man....

Warning: Spoiler!

Quotes:
Warning: Spoiler!

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23 Mar 2016 05:10 #235286 by Cyan Sarden

RyuJin wrote: it's the victim mentality that has one ask "why us?" or "what did we do?"....it's not us, it's not something we did...it's something someone else did, it's a decision someone else made....


I respectfully disagree. Society as a whole is a complex system of interaction, action and reaction. So what we do (or did) always matters and the question of what we did (or didn't do) to cause a certain reaction should always be asked. It's just as important as asking what we should do next (and is connected with the latter in many ways). To also add a quote: 'those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it'.

If the terrorists manage to prompt actions in us that aren't based on a proper analysis of present and past cause and reaction, they've reached their goal: us being pulled in a society-destabilizing downward spiral of violence and hate.

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23 Mar 2016 05:20 #235287 by Cyan Sarden

Snowy Aftermath wrote: I agree so much with the person who said the question should be "what are we doing right?" They're attacking because there's progress against their negativity and hate. Good is winning and they can't stand it.


That's a very beautiful, positive comment. The sad thing is that our 'good' is their 'bad' and vice versa. The problem with radical Islam is that they believe they're always winning: if they manage to defeat us in this world, they've won. If they lose in this world and get killed in the process, they still have won: they go to heaven as martyrs and get rewarded for it by their deity.

That said: I agree with you that we've made progress - we've been seeing the longest stretch of relative peace and prosperity in the western world (probably) in human history. But this peace is fragile as recent votes and elections in Europe show (with what is essentially being the new Nazi party in Germany winning 20% of the votes in larger parts of the country, for example). We need to actively work to keep it. The crisis in Syria and terrorism that is connected to it is the single biggest threat to this. Now is the time to prove that our new-found values can prevail in times of adversity. The honeymoon period is over in Europe - now it's time to find normality and hope that we're strong enough.

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23 Mar 2016 16:50 - 23 Mar 2016 16:51 #235352 by
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I'd like to see the more moderate members of their religion deal with their extremist so technology/superior fire power/violence doesn't have to be used. Is it too much to ask for self regulation. I mean someone knows and interacts with these extremist. Just follow the money.
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23 Mar 2016 17:05 #235355 by
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Rickie wrote: I'd like to see the more moderate members of their religion deal with their extremist so technology/superior fire power/violence doesn't have to be used.


http://www.freemuslims.org/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hundreds-muslims-marching-against-terrorism-6977099
http://www.m-a-t.org/
http://time.com/4112830/muslims-paris-terror-attacks-islam-condemn/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/muslim-clerics-condemn-terrorism_us_566adfa1e4b009377b249dea
http://muslimsagainstterror.com/
http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/think-muslims-havent-condemned-isis-think-again.html

Or any of the other 2,500,000 links here ...

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23 Mar 2016 17:42 #235357 by
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Do they make a difference?

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23 Mar 2016 18:26 #235363 by TheDude
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“If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace.”
“All we are saying is give peace a chance.”

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23 Mar 2016 20:54 #235391 by
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Rickie wrote: I'd like to see the more moderate members of their religion deal with their extremist so technology/superior fire power/violence doesn't have to be used. Is it too much to ask for self regulation. I mean someone knows and interacts with these extremist. Just follow the money.


The irony of this statement is that many (not just Muslims, also Palestinian Christians) in the Middle East have been saying the same thing about American politicians for years.

"Why didn't the more moderate politicians reel in the one's hellbent on starting wars? Is it too much to ask that they follow their own Constitution? I mean, someone voted for these people now bombing us."

And the answer is... "Just follow the money." (Israel, Halliburton, oil companies, etc)

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