"Am i being detained?"

police relations are a touchy subject, especially in america

i respect law enforcement and do not dispute the need for police

i also respect the right of law abiding, free citizens, to be free

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKtMLhN_zeE

so, what is the balance?

were these people in the wrong for acting and answering as they did?

legally

SHOULD, civilian citizens have the right to say "no thank you officer, i will just go on my way now" ?? and then do exactly that?

I really and truly don't understand the point of being uncooperative. If you have nothing to hide, just give them what they want and move along, you know? All you're doing is challenging something for the sake of challenging it. I'd rather be out enjoying life.

Citizens are protected by certain rights when it comes to dealing with law enforcement. The problems arise when people are uneducated or misinformed about those rights and either do not exercise them when they should or try to exercise rights that they do not actually have.

I can refuse to speak with a law enforcement officer. I can refuse to allow a search of myself or my vehicle. I can ask if I am being detained. If I am not, I can walk away. However, if the officer has probable cause to detain me, he or she can place me under arrest. At that point, I must receive Miranda rights and I can refuse to speak to anyone unless I have a lawyer present. Even then, I don't have to answer any questions.

The problem with the approach in this video is that by exercising these rights in an antagonistic way without demonstrating that you are in fact a citizen afforded these rights, you are putting law enforcement in the position of either forcing you to comply by detaining you, or you are limiting their ability to protect the public from actual threats. If you refuse to identify yourself as a U.S. citizen at an immigration checkpoint, you certainly give up your right to criticize those officers for allowing any illegal immigrants through as well.

I've always believed that if you are a citizen and you cherish these rights, you should also cherish the people who serve and protect your community. Know your rights and exercise them when appropriate, but you don't have to be a dick just to prove a point.

hiddeninthesnow wrote: I really and truly don't understand the point of being uncooperative. If you have nothing to hide, just give them what they want and move along, you know? All you're doing is challenging something for the sake of challenging it.

I respectfully disagree. Like Senan said, you don't have to be a dick about it. But you should also probably not "give them what they want and move along". That's a surefire way to screw yourself. I'm just going to throw this out there: http://www.kirkpiccione.com/10-reasons-not-talk-police/

Full disclosure, I am a criminal defense attorney.

My level of antagonism depends on the officer's level of antagonism. I hardly ever have encounters with police officers. If you're not stupid you won't ever attract that kind of attention to yourself and if you do well maybe you really are doing something wrong requiring some intervention. Of course there could be a situation going on requiring you to show ID and answer basic questions about who you are or what you are doing, or something like a DUI checkpoint. But those immigration checkpoints are total nonsense when you consider they are sometimes hundreds of miles from the border, you know, the border they don't even protect or enforce?

The few I've had with friends being pulled over we are polite and they were with one friend who had a tail light out and another who's registration was expired. Otherwise as a kid I used to run into them all time skateboarding around town getting kicked out of places, or when they'd crash a drinking party, sometimes when we were bored we'd call the cops on ourselves as suspicious activity so we could run from them and enjoy getting chased. Living in northern California police are always after marijuana and drugs, on the tail light occassion the officer said he detected the smell of fresh marijuana and requested to search the vehicle. My friend told him he will not consent to that search and that he didn't believe the officer truly smelled it and that we were not in possession. He went back to his car and came back deciding to gave him a warning for the tail light. Obviously the cop was just trying to fish or instimidate for if he truly had smelled it he would not have let us go or maybe he just didn't care to do what they usually do and make it all up just to search. The other case of expired registration, well, my friend had smoked marijuana in the car not too long ago. The officer notified us right away he smelled it and there was no hiding it. Friend let him search, found his personal amount but even though he had a physician's recommendation he was still DUI so they took him in for that and let me and another friend in the car go.

You may not have anything to hide but, unfortunately police officers really do have quotas to fulfill with everything from basic traffic tickets, to drug charges, and other crimes. I've seen the damn marker board in the station. There's even been mentions about how departments will let go officers who aren't raking in the dough, which of course makes sense if you see that as not doing their job. Another thing I read was that departments often hire individuals specifically below a certain IQ level, I guess that might have to do with needing people who don't think and can just sit in a car all day or do what they're told. Even if it's a petty thing, you should still ask questions and not volunteer any information. At the point of arrest, do not volunteer any information unless you're just helping with something serious but that is also questionable - ANYTHING you say can and WILL be used against you.

They're playing the game, well really it's just a business now and not about right and wrong, you should play to and they really are out to get you and as we've seen over the last few years especially, they will kill you. If you run from Chicago police they can shoot you. But I understand why when witnessing what they deal with everday. Some of those cops getting off murder charges that riled up the "he dindu nuffin!" crowds, well one guy they shot was high on PCP with a knife and police are trained to drop you within 21ft. One of the others was a known violent offender and dealer, there aren't as many cases where the police shot a guy dead for no reason or justification as Soros' "Black Lives Matter" want us to believe. There are many accidental shootings and yes those ones they shoot with no justification is absolutely terrible but if so those officers get in trouble.

Honestly though I think about enrolling in a police academy, because in my area they are so overwhelmed and crime is just rampant. But one of my favorite sayings is something like, if you join the system to try to change it the system ends up changing you. Proposition 47, the ballot initiative passed by California voters on November 4, 2014, reduces certain drug possession felonies to misdemeanors. It also requires misdemeanor sentencing for petty theft, receiving stolen property and forging/writing bad checks when the amount involved is $950 or less. Most of them police here are good guys just trying to do their jobs and have a positive effect but Prop 47 gave all the vagrants, tweakers and general trouble makers a green light to do whatever cause they'll just get a ticket or booked and released. If you read the police report everyday you see the same names in and out.

Arrogance breeds contempt.

i almost never talk with police under any circumstances, unless required by my job. they are not my friends. they are not there to serve and protect. at best they are there to harrass and annoy, at worst to extort money out of you by traffic fines, bail, etc. i am teaching my son this valuable lesson as well, to spare him some of the trouble that seems so endemic in the US now with police misconduct and over reach.

Desolous wrote: i almost never talk with police under any circumstances, unless required by my job. they are not my friends. they are not there to serve and protect. at best they are there to harrass and annoy, at worst to extort money out of you by traffic fines, bail, etc. i am teaching my son this valuable lesson as well, to spare him some of the trouble that seems so endemic in the US now with police misconduct and over reach.

This brings up an interesting point Des. This, like pretty much everything, depends very much on circumstance and past history. This is how you handle these situations because of what has happened to you in the past. From the sound of it it wasn't pleasant. For that I am sorry.

I, on the other hand, have had very different experiences. I rather enjoy talking to police. I have known many officers, even trained with a few and trained their children as well. I will often go out of my way to talk to police officers who aren't even asking to speak to me just because they look like they could use a friendly face. The times when they do approach me or want to question me I have always been very cooperative and it has always gone smoothly.

Now, are either of us wrong in our handling of these situations? Absolutely not. It is, as I said, very much determined by circumstance. That being said, I'd hope that if the situation did arise where a police officer was behaving in a way that I didn't approve of and I knew I had a legal right to not have to deal with it that I would not simply comply. I can only say that I hope that's how I would handle it because it hasn't happened to me yet.

Goken wrote:

Desolous wrote: i almost never talk with police under any circumstances, unless required by my job. they are not my friends. they are not there to serve and protect. at best they are there to harrass and annoy, at worst to extort money out of you by traffic fines, bail, etc.

I, on the other hand, have had very different experiences. I rather enjoy talking to police. I have known many officers, even trained with a few and trained their children as well. I will often go out of my way to talk to police officers who aren't even asking to speak to me just because they look like they could use a friendly face. The times when they do approach me or want to question me I have always been very cooperative and it has always gone smoothly.

I'm glad to see that someone here has had my experience. I enjoy talking to them. They're just people doing their best in most cases. Of course you have bad ones, but I feel as if expecting them to be that way straightaway is unfair. It's like expecting every person of a certain race to have a bomb or something.

What is really sad to me... is imagine yourself having to go through your day like that as a cop with almost everyone being antagonistic toward you. It's got to do things to your soul after a while. And you thought you were the good guys.

I lost all desire to work with or respect police when I came home from six years of active duty to be harassed and once assaulted in my own neighborhood by cops. I lost my willingness to be nice when I came home and watched the rights I spent six years of my life to defend and far better men and women then me have given life, limb, and sanity to preserve being trampled by cops and their fellow cops who took a similar oath to the constitution as mine defending it.
The cops have created their public image issues and its on them to fix it. Further rights like muscles when not exercised regularly and with vigor will be lost.