Was Darth Vader Born Bad?

See http://JediismSeminary.org/documents/WasVaderBornBad.pdf

Everyone from birth has an innate right to free choice, everyone has the potential for the one thing or the other. Certainly we are influenced, but ultimately the choices are ours. That Darth Vader is described as being bad, is this not a point of view? For the rebels maybe so, for the Empire not and for traders he might have been just a good trading partner. Then maybe if Darth Vader hadn`t done what he had, maybe he couldn`t have saved the universe (with Luke`s help). So who is good or bad, or what is good or bad?

I've had this sort of discussion before with a friend of mine that I work with. He's a psych major. We have gone through all the angles of nature vs. nurture. I have come to the conclusion that they all have an influence on ones upbringing. But at the sametime, a person can be born with a chemical imbalance in their brain which will ultimately dictate the product of the person, reguardless of environment or home training. Whose to say that Anakin wasn't Bi-polar or suffered from paranoia. Its been known to skip a generation, example could be Luke. However, Luke did have a father figure growing up, then that would be nurture I suppose. If you believe that people are born bad, then would that mean everyone is inherently evil?
Kinda makes you go HHHMMMM!!! and scratch your forehead.

Decimus wrote:

I've had this sort of discussion before with a friend of mine that I work with. He's a psych major. We have gone through all the angles of nature vs. nurture. I have come to the conclusion that they all have an influence on ones upbringing. But at the sametime, a person can be born with a chemical imbalance in their brain which will ultimately dictate the product of the person, reguardless of environment or home training. Whose to say that Anakin wasn't Bi-polar or suffered from paranoia. Its been known to skip a generation, example could be Luke. However, Luke did have a father figure growing up, then that would be nurture I suppose. If you believe that people are born bad, then would that mean everyone is inherently evil?
Kinda makes you go HHHMMMM!!! and scratch your forehead.

Well if what you say is true was Van Gogh a genius because of his Master pieces, or was he insane as he demonstrated by cutting off his ear, or was it that one moment he was insane and the next a genius, or have we missed something out, or do we really know what we are talking about,... . With so many views on what kind of a person Darth Vader is...it has to be left up to the eye of the beholder. And the person who has the priviledge to come up with the YELP \"URIKA!\" I know is certainly a powerful man in his knowledge.

\"There is nothing very odd about lambs disliking birds of prey, but there is no reason for holding it against large birds of prey that they carry off lambs. And when lambs whisper among themselves, \"These birds of prey are evil, and does this not give us a right to say that whatever is the opposite of a bird of prey must be good?\" there is nothing intriniscally wrong with such an arguement-though the birds of prey will look somewhat quizzically and say, \"We have nothing against these good lambs; in fact, we love them; nothing tastes better than a tender lamb.\"
-Friedrich Nietzsche

We can only speculate. Without actually actively engaging Van Gogh in conversation and getting to know him as a person, there is no way to tell for sure. Perhaps his art was how he saw his world and putting on canvas is a way of sharing his vision with others or maybe no one was supposed to see. Is that insane? Who knows. Mutilating himself might have been his own way to demonstrate selflessness. I would think selfless acts are commendable, though a bit extreme in his case. Cutting his ear off could have been the only way for anyone to take him seriously. If my memory serves me correctly, he did this for a woman. In that era, people had to go out of their way for anybody to take them seriously, Van Gogh, Christopher Columbus, Micheal Angelo, Magellan, and even Napoleon Bonapart to name few. Then I would ask myself, \"why the ear?\" Perhaps an ear wound is easier to hide, so it would appear to me that he wasn't as psychotic as others perceived him to be. Then with no other way to express himself, he supposedly takes his own life. Or so we are led to believe. Whose to say these accounts of his life are fabricated by some other secret admirer of this woman to make him appear loopy. Then kills Van Gogh because his deception didn't work. Interesting.:dry:

Decimus wrote:

We can only speculate. Without actually actively engaging Van Gogh in conversation and getting to know him as a person, there is no way to tell for sure. Perhaps his art was how he saw his world and putting on canvas is a way of sharing his vision with others or maybe no one was supposed to see. Is that insane? Who knows. Mutilating himself might have been his own way to demonstrate selflessness. I would think selfless acts are commendable, though a bit extreme in his case. Cutting his ear off could have been the only way for anyone to take him seriously. If my memory serves me correctly, he did this for a woman. In that era, people had to go out of their way for anybody to take them seriously, Van Gogh, Christopher Columbus, Micheal Angelo, Magellan, and even Napoleon Bonapart to name few. Then I would ask myself, \"why the ear?\" Perhaps an ear wound is easier to hide, so it would appear to me that he wasn't as psychotic as others perceived him to be. Then with no other way to express himself, he supposedly takes his own life. Or so we are led to believe. Whose to say these accounts of his life are fabricated by some other secret admirer of this woman to make him appear loopy. Then kills Van Gogh because his deception didn't work. Interesting.:dry:

:woohoo: That was interesting Br.Decimus, thanks for sharing this.

I don't think that he was born bad. He wasn't really born in the first place. To understand what happened to Anakin, you must take into account the slave boy who was found on Tatooine. Constantly criticized, abused, and considered a freak. He did have a hard time as a child. Finding out he was special only made it worse.

I don't think he was born bad. He had a great relationship with his mother, and the grief of his leaving and her dying, would be hard for anyone to overcome. That is ultimately what made him choose the dark path, the easy path. His life seemed like such an uphill battle, that he chose the easy way.

With the Order against him, and the only support coming from the most 'influential' man in the galaxy. What would you do? Padme's death pushed him past the point of turning back. He became Vader, by the releasing of his anger, hate, and will to dominate he set his galaxy at peace.