Jedi Gay Tolerance?

A.I.M as it seems to directly affect a whole segment of people including myself we most defiantly take a stand. After all sitting about doing nothing is not what an instrument of peace does.

I concur. For too many years, I myself was on the intolerant side of the fence. As a Jedi even, I remained intolerant for a long time, and then I had an awakening so to speak.

Jedi have a duty TO take a stand. My reasoning echoes what has already been said, and that is Justice. Equality. Human rights and freedom. Jedi are to stand for these things... regardless if you agree or do not agree with homosexuality, it is your duty to stand against inequality and injustice.

For my personal opinions, I have to disagree with you, Br. John. I don't believe everyone would want to be homosexual or bi-sexual if all discrimination against homosexuality ceased. I know for a fact that I would not, as my natural
desires center around the female with an absolute certainty. I believe that most, if not all people who become homosexual are born with that preference, either from a hormonal imbalance, or from something else. In the end, the love shared between two beings transcends sex, age(to an extent), and race. Two people who love eachother should have the same rights as any other two people who love eachother, whether they be black, white, asian, indian, gay, or straight. That is equality... that is freedom. And those are things we as Jedi MUST stand for.

I agree with Master Kyp.

Jedi fight for justice. In a simple form: equality. Intolerance is foolish and without merit or thought.

\"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.\"
--Albert Einstein

Having gone to college to be a Stage Manager, and worked in theatre for about 5 years in NYC, I happen to have known and become close to many homosexuals. Heck, my foster brother is one. I have been lucky in that I pretty much raised myself as a moral person, though hanging out in the village let myself be privy to many people and thier beliefs on life. I even thought deeply on wheather I would be with another man, and found out, gee willikers, I really (REALLY) like girls, but I can have close friends that are boys ... if you can understand.

Now, as to standing up for Gay Rights, like Prop 8. Personally, I think the Church can say whom they wish to marry or not. The Government has a responsibility to allow ALL citizens the same freedoms and rights. If a Homosexual wished to marry, they should be allowed the same right as I was, to go to their town hall and fill out the paperwork.

Brother Gabriel.

Thank you all responders for thoughtful, intelligent and Jedi posts.

Br. John also does not agree with Br. John. The statement \"[E]verybody will want to be [gay]\" I politely borrowed from a parody website. The humor is dampened by the fact that too many people believe that a person can be 'made' gay when we know that folks are born gay, straight or otherwise.

It's normal to be gay if you are gay. It's normal to be left-handed if you are left-handed. What's forgotten when an example is shown to the contrary is that some of us pitch for both teams; we are bisexual.

Some of the testilying I heard during the debate on Proposition 8 was that churches would have to marry gays, second graders would be taught about gay marriage and that there is such a thing as a 'gay agenda' to spread the word about the joys of homosexuality to get converts. (After all why do you think they call it gay?)

Using Scripture as a weapon to harm people is not only Evil but it violates the commandment on worshiping false gods. Many who claim to be Christians are really Bible Worshippers.

Let's quote Jesus on the subject: \" \".

Br. John+
Sr. Pastor

actually John, it used to be that Catholics would force children to write with their right hands instead of their left, using violence strikes on the hand to discourage it. I'm not even sure that is has stopped inside of Catholic Schools, they legitimately believed that a left handed person was evil! I don't know if anyone was ever murdered for being left-handed, but the principle is similar, hating someone because of something they were born with is ridiculous, and allowing it to continue at the risk of lives is unacceptable. some people's opinion you can't change because they are too stubborn (which is the reason I haven't told my family I'm Bisexual, it would likely kill my grandmother) but you can prevent them from acting out their Xenophobia. some people will always hate blacks and Jews, that can't be Helped. but most of the populace think such views are reprehensible. The Law must be there to protect people from others, that is the point of the Law, to maintain Order and to protect people from those who would harm them in their own society, to pass a bill which denies peoples rights is the opposite of what should be done. I say again, if the Jedi do not stand up for Justice, then we do not deserve to be respected. and we have made hypocrites of ourselves.

All of you are missing something huge here. You call yourselves defender of justice...

Who's justice? Who is right? Who is wrong? Does not the force flow the pattern in wich it wants? If all things are as the force makes them, then it is not fair or even accurate to say that one person is right and another wrong. All people have a point of view.

And like Obi-wan said, a great many things depend on our points of view.

I dont think either side is this conflict is right. There is no way to prove them as right or wrong, it exist as all things do. And, as all things, it exist because it was meant to exist.

Time will change the views of the masses on this subject and many others for a billion years to come. You must think beyond your \"opinion\". What I say is, there is no such things as Gay, or straight. I do not define people like that. I do not define black and white.

Because you cannot have one without the other.

So no, Jedi's are not defender's of the gay point of view. Nor are they defender of ANYONE's point of view. They are instruments of the force, and defenders of PEACE. PEACE coming first.

And you, my brother, are also missing something... something very basic. It is not the \"Gay point of view\" which Jedi must defend. You're looking at this backwards.

It is the simple fact that we as Jedi must defend equal rights. Equal freedoms. It is not that we're defending \"gay rights\". We're defending \"human rights\", pure and simple. A homosexual is no less human than a heterosexual... and thus, they are deserving of the same rights.

So once again, I reiterate: Jedi MUST stand up for equal rights, and AGAINST inequality. You don't have to agree with homosexuality to stand up as a Jedi in opposition of inequal rights. As a Jedi, it is your DUTY to stand up for freedom and equality.

I will now share something... I recently \"broke the law\". I'll get into more detail on that momentarily...

I performed a wedding ceremony in August. When asked about it, I tell people the beautiful tale of love between two people. I tell how these two people met, quickly fell in love, and desired to share their lives. I tell of the wedding ceremony itself, which was unique in the fact that it was a blend of Wiccan, Celtic, and Jedi traditions. I tell of the reception, with much happiness and congratulations on the happy couple. I usually get the response of \"Awww, that's so sweet, I hope they're happy and do well in their life together.\" THEN, and only then, after the person I have been telling this tale to shares empathetically with the joy of the wedding, do I tell them that this marriage ceremony cannot be legal. The usual response is \"Why the hell not, aren't you a legal Clergy person??\" Then I explain that the two people I conducted the ceremony for were homosexual men. Usually at that point, I am met with either disgust or sympathy, but my point is that up until I reveal the gender of the two people, EVERYONE is happy and shares in the joy of that wedding. And THAT is the point. If two people... ANY two people share a love for eachother, and want to spend the rest of their lives together, they deserve the same rights and freedoms as everyone else, regardless of gender or orientation.

As for the part about me \"breaking the law\"... Yes, I am guilty of breaking an unjust law. The wedding ceremony I performed for this gay couple is \"illegal\". In Oklahoma, it is \"immoral\". Even though I did not fill out or file any paperwork on the wedding, it is still a breach of law even to provide them with the ritual ceremony. I have been threatened with death over this, I have been threatened to be reported to the authorities to have my clergy status revoked, I even had one bigot threaten to use his \"influence\" to have me arrested. All over something which should be a basic human right. Separation of Church and State... That phrase alone means the Government does not have the right to interfere with Religious affairs... and yet, the sanctity of Marriage is regulated by the government in the case of gay couples. It is unconstitutional.

As for the gay couple themselves... when they asked me if I would perform the ceremony for them, I explained to them in full detail that it could in no way be legal here in Oklahoma. They understood that, they just wanted the Ceremony... the same ritual that couples of the opposite sex enjoy. To them, it was not the legality of their marriage which mattered... it was the symbolism of their union. Yes, they want their marriage to be legitimate one day, but the point is that they wanted and deserved the same consideration as any other couple.

And though it is a small matter, the proper plural of Jedi is Jedi.

Proposition 8 seeks to revoke a civil right against a specific group of people; one's that wish to marry a person of the same sex. Even if I can't define justice I know injustice when I see it.

We are guardians of Peace AND Justice and how can there be peace without justice?

I do not see how a Jedi could vote For Prop 8 and I believe it is a Jedi duty to vote against it if possible.

Master Kyp, if you get arrested for that I'll see that you get an attorney so fast. You did not file a license. You conducted a religious ceremony. That cannot be illegal. It's such a clear violation of the First Amendment that the ACLU would break their neck coming to your aid and you'd make international news.

I can't think of anything that would get more publicity for Jediism other that George Lucas suing us himself. We know by now he has no intention of is as he is well aware of us.

Br. John+
Sr. Pastor