The Hero of a Thousand (Boring) Faces

Snatched from the comments on io9's breakdown of the new TMNT trailer :

That looks wildly inaccurate ...

If there is a story, especially something like Star Trek that takes on a life all its own, it is the mythic elements, the archetypes, that reach out and grab us as a culture altogether.

If someone thinks that it is Campbell that ruined what they love, then that person had no idea why they loved it to begin with and is probably a little too shallow to understand Campbell.

Things we don't understand and/or don't want to agree with make for fine scapegoats.

:dry:

Lol, like you scapegoating them?

Too shallow are they?

As you say, easy enough when you dont agree.

Off the top of my head I can think of a half dozen TV shows where the character has no manifest destiny.


Films:
Iron Man
Hulk
Captain America
Thor
Batman (new)
Book of Eli
Bourne Films (Jason Bourne)
Riddick
Die Hard
Shrek
Fast and Furious
Lord of the Rings + Hobbit
James Bond
Kick Ass
Pirates of the Caribbean
Rambo
Transformers (which is a Michael bay film - like TMNT)
Taken

Those are a sample of my films that have come out in recent years in which there is no manifest destiny. That person has some clear confirmation bias, because he's just utterly wrong.

There was never any concern where he came from when the TV show was on....

But, as people want backstory, or forstory (is that a word?) we already know the outcome they are leading us too, so, when the miraculous circumstances are actually shown, like the Kobayashi Maru and what not, it appears as he has no other choice but to follow that...

I should died at least twice, and yet I am here... Lived through a naked guy sitting on my chest punching me, while gunfire is going off in the background...

If I become someone of importance, will those little miracles that I survived, appear that I was destined to something?

We are all lucky to be alive in some way, near misses, zigged when a zag mighta killed us...

So, when one of us "makes it", that person was destined...

People who dont understand the 'hero' concept never cease to amaze me, and there are plenty here in TOTJO, lol...:lol:

Akkarin wrote: Off the top of my head I can think of a half dozen TV shows where the character has no manifest destiny.


Films:
Iron Man
Hulk
Captain America
Thor
Batman (new)
Book of Eli
Bourne Films (Jason Bourne)
Riddick
Die Hard
Shrek
Fast and Furious
Lord of the Rings + Hobbit
James Bond
Kick Ass
Pirates of the Caribbean
Rambo
Transformers (which is a Michael bay film - like TMNT)
Taken

Those are a sample of my films that have come out in recent years in which there is no manifest destiny. That person has some clear confirmation bias, because he's just utterly wrong.

lol, as Kirk aint dead yet, there is still time for him to screw up his reputation too...

Then he would be destined for infamy... lol...

As was said in Harry Potter (might as well reach for more fiction, :lol:)...

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (2001)
Mr. Ollivander: Curious... very curious...
Harry: Sorry, but what's curious?
Mr. Ollivander: I remember every wand I've ever sold, Mr. Potter. It so happens that the phoenix whose tailfeather resides in your wand gave another feather... just one other. It is curious that you should be destined for this wand when its brother gave you that scar.
Harry: And who owned that wand?
Mr. Ollivander: We do not speak his name! The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter. It's not always clear why. But I think it is clear that we can expect great things from you. After all, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named did great things. Terrible! Yes. But great.

Kirk can still be destined for greatness....

Kill the messenger? Campbell didn't invent the hero; he brought to our attention the structure of their journey that is seen throughout myth and history. That so many novels and film plots follow this structure is because it's familiar. Foreshadowing in a plot by invoking destiny and fate introduces anticipation in the reader, so that, she or he can interpret the quality of life that the hero lived and about their choices. Heroes eventually die (or the film/novel ends) and it is how they lived that inspire us. Or not. Can a villain be destined? Is their end a matter of fate?

Where do the mythic heroes that Campbell describes appear in film or print?

I think Rowling is an existentialist, and so Potter is not defined by destiny but by his choices.

Alan wrote: Can a villain be destined? Is their end a matter of fate?

ALAS! The Scottish Play!

*points to "Humor" subforum title*

The monomyth does not define the journey of one hero. (it's a bit more complicated than that)

I agree though. Campbell is boring, as are stories based on his work. What makes star wars so attractive is the force, and the setting. ships like never seen before, bad guys like we've never seen before... SW is the start of modern science fiction (on film at least).

the Force of star wars does fit in the campbell framework, but only forms a small part of it. While it makes the story attractive, it's actually the result of Lucas' own work in comparative religion, not Campbell's. The rest of the monomyth isn't worth anyone's while. I'd rather see people try new things, hit and miss, than another one of those recycled bland stories whose only purpose seem to be turning us all into [strike]zombies[/strike] obedient consumers.