Curiosity

I was skimming through a few articles today, and I came across an article discussing Psychic abilities, so I began to do some of my own research. I looked into theories on Astral Projection because I found it particularly interesting, as well as some other things on meditation techniques and various training exercises that I plan on starting over the next few months to help mold myself into a healthier person.

When reading about some cultural practices by various groups of people, I saw they used drugs as a common gateway to reach higher limits of the human psyche. I was wondering, how does the Order view the use of drugs in this way? Do you feel it's okay to use them if your intentions are to try and connect on a deeper level with the force? I thought it was an interesting topic to talk about, so please let me know your feelings on the matter, I'd love to hear them.

Personally I fully support the use of non-narcotic drugs when used for the expansion of the consciousness. Marijuana is one of the best things on the planet in my opinion, and it's through that remarkable little plant (bless CA medical marijuana laws) that my life has become as good as it has. Personally I'm wary of anything man made, but natural psychotropics such as certain fungi and Hawaiian wood rose (active ingredient - LSA) are certainly acceptable.

However I only condone use of these stronger drugs when used for the express purpose of forwarding consciousness and only when used under experienced supervision. These things are very dangerous if misused, and I know of far to many people who have damaged themselves by not being careful enough with psychedelics I.E. using them as 'party drugs'. That's not to say they couldn't be used in a social setting, but only if that setting is safe, secure, is in the presence of a non-using and experienced guide and not just for kicks.

Marijuana is the only drug that, in my mind, should be used socially in party situations. It alone has the versatility to expand the mind while enhancing the moment and not causing any severe unfavorable consequences. (Though even then it should be used with care, respect and in the presence of a responsible person who is either sober or used to the effects to the point where it doesn't affect judgement).

I can't speak for the Order of course, but personally I think that under these highly structured and responsible guidelines a Jedi should certainly partake of anything that will help them on their path. Just take a look at the First Earth Battalion, (New Earth Army in the amazing movie 'Men Who Stare at Goats'), they were some of the original real world Jedi, and you better believe they used drugs. They were part of the army too. lol xD

Anyone wishing to use drugs of any sort however should read the book PiHKAL: A chemical love story. If ever there was a required book to read before doing drugs, that is it.

Personally I, myself, do not prefer any additional mind-altering substances other than anything my body itself makes on its own. I am able to manifest an abundance of focus and indulgence in meditative states as well as social events without any additional aid. I have my own personal perceptions and opinions about certain negative aspects I feel the substances have but they are more a subjective matter (meaning that they pertain to my own past experiences and current conditions and can't represent anyone else's). These include things like a negative influence on pro-active motivation, as well as a risk of future mental dependance to feel at ease with bare reality.

I do agree With you Hal, I don't feel man made chemicals like LSD or drugs of that sort should be used, but I see nothing wrong with cultures using Natural drugs like Marijuana or Peyote if it is meant for a spiritual practice.

I also feel as you do Proteus, I don't think I would use any substance to reach meditative states, I feel like it's almost cheating in a way. I recall reading somewhere that drugs are just a gateway to the extensions of the psyche, and in order to pass through it the mind must travel there itself, without any aid.

I have to say that I am speaking as a person who has never tried and never intends to try any form of drugs (other than standard medicine of course), but it feels to me that being a Jedi is about teaching yourself to achieve a mental state where we can communicate with the Force, even if it takes years or a whole lifetime. To use drugs to bring about a spiritual mental state seems like it is almost defeating the point of being a Jedi, where the ethos is of hard work and dedication to self-improvement.


Edit: just wanted to clarify that I am not particularly 'judgey' about drugs (a member of my immediate family is an recreational drug-taker) and do not necessarily think that they are inherently either good or bad, they just don't appeal to me personally on any level.

Expect a video response to this in my holocron in a few hours

I'm with V on this one. Plus, I do not feel that drugs do anything worth while. I just think they make you think your are connecting to the energies around you and enhancing your spirituality. I see it all as nothing but an illusion. Remember, they are mind altering drugs. They make you feel and think things that aren't really there. But, that is just my opinion.

It's simply down to personal choice in my opinion. I spent nearly twenty years getting drunk or high on one drug or another, I tried 'em all, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas style! I bought the ticket and I took the ride!

It's no longer a path I choose to walk down but I would not judge anyone who did and I have no problem with it as long as they do not become a risk to anyone else or behave in an aggressive or offensive way. To be honest I am glad of my experiences as I believe I am now better able to appreciate the true clarity and peace of mind one can achieve when sober. I also dream again!

Remember one thing: "Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes the bar eats you!"

The Force will be with you, always.

As someone who has worked with them with the intent of increasing consciousness I must firmly disagree with some of the comments here. I side with many other great minds of the 20th century like Timothy Leary and Ralph Metzner who have used and studied many drugs and found them to be highly beneficial. In my mind being unwilling to try something without at least understanding it is not at all wise... I truly respect anyone who wishes to expand their mind completely unaided, many have taken that route and it is a noble one, but one should be fully informed before passing judgement.

To say that what they do is an illusion is not only false but... frankly flies in the face of thousands of years of Shamanistic practices.

Also as someone who has had certain experiences... I can safely say that the use of certain drugs can help to alleviate suffering, dramatically change a person's perspective on the world and himself for the better, and aid the user greatly on the path towards enlightenment. In other words - be knowledgeable on a subject or don't knock in 'till you've tried it.


In the end it all boils down to personal choice.

Hal_littleeye wrote: Personally I fully support the use of non-narcotic drugs when used for the expansion of the consciousness. Marijuana is one of the best things on the planet in my opinion, and it's through that remarkable little plant (bless CA medical marijuana laws) that my life has become as good as it has. Personally I'm wary of anything man made, but natural psychotropics such as certain fungi and Hawaiian wood rose (active ingredient - LSA) are certainly acceptable.

However I only condone use of these stronger drugs when used for the express purpose of forwarding consciousness and only when used under experienced supervision. These things are very dangerous if misused, and I know of far to many people who have damaged themselves by not being careful enough with psychedelics I.E. using them as 'party drugs'. That's not to say they couldn't be used in a social setting, but only if that setting is safe, secure, is in the presence of a non-using and experienced guide and not just for kicks.

Marijuana is the only drug that, in my mind, should be used socially in party situations. It alone has the versatility to expand the mind while enhancing the moment and not causing any severe unfavorable consequences. (Though even then it should be used with care, respect and in the presence of a responsible person who is either sober or used to the effects to the point where it doesn't affect judgement).

I can't speak for the Order of course, but personally I think that under these highly structured and responsible guidelines a Jedi should certainly partake of anything that will help them on their path. Just take a look at the First Earth Battalion, (New Earth Army in the amazing movie 'Men Who Stare at Goats'), they were some of the original real world Jedi, and you better believe they used drugs. They were part of the army too. lol xD

Anyone wishing to use drugs of any sort however should read the book PiHKAL: A chemical love story. If ever there was a required book to read before doing drugs, that is it.

PiHKAL (Phenethylamines I Have Known And Loved): A Chemical Love Story By Alexander and Ann Shulgin

That's a wonderful book.

This is a complex subject and I have some readings to post. A short, very short answer is that The Order's position is not to abuse substances. Proper use of substances is A-OK and can be of great benefit.

Now what's abuse and what's proper use? We'll get to that.

Just saying "drugs are bad" or "drugs are good" does not mean anything. What drug(s)? What dose(s)? Why is it being used?

Why is something that alters the mind automatically bad - or good? Can't some be good and others not so good or bad? My glasses alter my vision and allow me read and drive. For most people they'd make it impossible to read or drive. The insulin injection I took after dinner keeps my blood sugar normal and I'm alert instead of fatigued and dreary with a high blood sugar. That shot would kill most of you but it's saving my life.

Keep in mind that something that's good for one person can be horrible or deadly for another.

We might move or rename this thread.

We have a lot to discuss.