Is Reiki a form of Force power?

J. K. Barger wrote: @Fyxe I agree with your definition; it's too bad we hesitate to define things here, or at least, make or assume "working definitions" for particular topics.

As in the definition which was copied and pasted from the homepage?

I think anyone here who claims to be a Jedi agrees with that definition, but as Gisteron has pointed out that definition leaves a MASSIVE amount of room for interpretation. If that definition was so 'definitive' we wouldn't be asked to write an entire essay defining the Force at the end of the IP.

J. K. Barger wrote: @Brick Instead of a link, can you just type out, here in this discussion, a one-liner definition for your Force-paradigm? Perhaps going point by point, or alphabetically/numerically, you can lay out a logical line of thought that debunks the "mystical" or pseudoscientific assumptions held in this thread?

Well, as I said in the link:

Brick wrote: Whatever answer I give, it is likely to be wrong. I am bad enough at finding words to explain what I mean, but to use a finite number of words to describe something which is infinitely indescribable? Buggeration :laugh:

What you're asking me to do is practically impossible, as The force is simply the word we use to refer to 'that which transcends' any all comprehension. By its very nature it undefinable and indescribable. But that isn't an excuse to deny facts.

Perhaps the best way to explain my understanding is to pinch Sonya’s from the ‘Mindwalk’ Lesson in the IP (assuming its still in the IP). Her descriptions of how one part of a system depends on that of another, how these things around us seamlessly blend and connect and change slowly together over time, all depending on one thing, which depends on something else, and on and on. That just makes sense to me. I can see it in patterns all around and within me.

For me, to talk about The Force is to talk about that ‘connection’ to that giant living, breathing THING that we all are together. Like Watts’s ‘cat through the fence’ example, event ‘head’ does not lead to event ‘tail’. Its all ‘Cat’, just as I/you/cat/dog/earth are all ‘One’ or ‘All’. I don't feel that ‘All’ forms a sentient or has a secret plan for our lives or some meaningful destiny that it's taking us towards. I don't believe you can pray to it, it can’t hear you (and even if it could, it couldn’t do anything). I don't believe that it is guiding us in any particular way. But I have no choice but to be connected to it through The Force because it's part of what we all are. To suggest otherwise would be like a limb claiming to be a separate entity to the body.

But I don't for a second think that it can be 'manipulated' to 'heal'. Because, again, there is ZERO evidence to support this.

(Despite my attempt to rescue it at the end there, I think I've gone too kooky for Gisteron now :laugh:)

So I'm very confused??

I didnt ask for a training from here to show me force powers. I did ask for more info on it.

But so do people here believe reike is real, or energy healing or whatever and if energy is all the same then that energy would be force energy right?

That's like going to a Christian Church and asking for a transfusion using their communion wine so I can get Jesus' power. Edit: because I believe Jesus was a master of the beyblade.
Mu

Fyxe wrote: So I'm very confused??

I didnt ask for a training from here to show me force powers. I did ask for more info on it.

But so do people here believe reike is real, or energy healing or whatever and if energy is all the same then that energy would be force energy right?

I'm certain the confusion is mutual; if anyone thinks your still asking about Force Powers, well, it's because you're questions still run along those lines.

I think you're mistaken in the premise of your question- you assume that there is a single, clear and definitive answer, yet, as you've seen, several times, now, the nature of things in this particular temple, and the topic/s at hand, makes it so you aren't going to get a single, definitive answer, namely because there aren't any. It's going to vary, sometimes greatly, depending on who you're talking to.

It's like that through most of the internet, and life, honestly.

Take from it what you will, learn what you can, and try to come to an informed decision on your own. If the answers frustrate you, perhaps you should reconsider the questions, or, indeed, your expectations?

But, to put it as simply as possible: No. this Temple does not officially endorse or advocate anything like Reiki or other forms of Energy Healing. As such, there is not presently available a distinctly Jedi variant of the practice. This does not preclude any members from discussing such things, obviously, but a great many things are discussed here without the benefit of being part of the Temple or it's teachings.

The metaphor of The Force being like a sort of energy is just as valid an interpretation as any, so I'm disinclined to tell you it isn't. If that interpretation helps your understanding, and eases your learning process, so be it.

Learn what you will, but perhaps consider the merits of learning and appreciating something for what it is, rather than what you wish it to be?

Fyxe wrote: I didnt ask for a training from here to show me force powers. I did ask for more info on it.

Fyxe wrote: I just wanted to know if reike was like force healing and if so can we use it to learn force healing? and i was wondering if anyone here could teach it?

Fyxe wrote: But so do people here believe reike is real, or energy healing or whatever and if energy is all the same then that energy would be force energy right?

People here are people, not a monolith. Some believe in Reiki, others do not. Some believe in other forms of energy healing "or whatever", others do not. Some believe it is all the same, others do not. Some think of the Force as one of those types of "energy", and - you guessed it - others do not. This goes as much for people here in general as for many subsets thereof. There is no general answer to your questions. If you mean whether everybody here believes any one particular way, the answer is no, we do not all think alike. If you mean whether there is anybody who believes one particular way, the answer is maybe and we can only wait for whoever that might be to speak up.

Wow you guys are harsh

Wow you guys are harsh

And we're the "good guys" ! :silly:

Imagine the sort of brash degeneracy you'll find in the rest of the world....

I have read good answers and refutations, I am not an expert in the English language,
Is it time to synthesize?
Would anyone like to synthesize?

Example:

Hypothesis: Reiki force is used to heal and everyone can learn to use it and an expert can teach others.
Question: Is reiki a force power?
Argument in favor: e.g., A group of people managed to cure their cells/illness with reiki treatment.
Argument against: e.g., You can't measure something that doesn't exist, it's just fantasy.
Evidence in favor:
Evidence against:
Conclusion: the hypothesis is discarded or accepted

.

I determine that it is a force power because I believe in the evidence that it works and I call that power the force!

Well, Fyxe, I happen to think that we should review all of the claims and all of the evidence, rather than filter only the evidence that "it works" for some unspecified purpose. And, as it stands, there is some evidence that Reiki works as a calming technique, and as a placebo, no evidence that it works as an actual cure of any serious bodily ailments beyond stress-related ones and strong evidence that it is not based on any sort of magical "energy" manipulations either the practitioners or their patients are able to sense.

You are of course free to pick and choose which evidence you like the sound of enough to acknowledge and to ignore all of the rest at your own discretion. What would confuse me about that approach though is why one would bother considering evidence to begin with, if the conclusion one wants to arrive at is already determined in advance and evidence is not a factor that could change the course of thought - if one dare even call it so - anyway...

Fyxe wrote: I determine that it is a force power because I believe in the evidence that it works and I call that power the force!

Often times it’s testimony vs research. Both just as valid as the other when it comes to personal choices.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Often times it’s testimony vs research. Both just as valid as the other when it comes to personal choices.

False. Both are just as influential over personal choices as the other, but they are not equally valid at all.

One of them carries minimal information with maximal bias even assuming honest reporting (and what a generous grant that is!), while the other is some attempt at actually evaluating the options with as much fairness as can be mustered, with some effort at minimizing biases and seeking out as much information relevant to the decision at hand before making it.
One of them is an open invitation for and embrace of ignorance while the other is a search for and accumulation of knowledge.
One of them is an indulgence toward passion, while the other is an exercise in patience and reservedness.
One of them is in opposition to the Code by just about any reading of it that respects the wording at all, the other is in line with it...

Nuff said...

Gisteron wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Often times it’s testimony vs research. Both just as valid as the other when it comes to personal choices.

False. Both are just as influential over personal choices as the other, but they are not equally valid at all.

One of them carries minimal information with maximal bias even assuming honest reporting (and what a generous grant that is!), while the other is some attempt at actually evaluating the options with as much fairness as can be mustered, with some effort at minimizing biases and seeking out as much information relevant to the decision at hand before making it.
One of them is an open invitation for and embrace of ignorance while the other is a search for and accumulation of knowledge.
One of them is an indulgence toward passion, while the other is an exercise in patience and reservedness.
One of them is in opposition to the Code by just about any reading of it that respects the wording at all, the other is in line with it...

Nuff said...

To you ...that’s how you see it - and that’s ok too. I totally understand your side, I don’t share it but I don’t have to for you to be valid.

There's a difference in "valid" as a socially affirming statement and a scientific one. I agree with Gist on this one. You can't just "both sides" science like that.

Well I dont follow science and I dont think research means much when the researchers just decide whatever they want and then tell us what we should believe. I think experience is much stronger than those. I have been meditating in this a great deal and I have found a very personal and strong path the the power of the force with the help of many friends that have shown me those paths here. So for you to tell me this place does not believe in the force is just a lie. So why should I think about other things you say?

Fyxe wrote: Well I dont follow science and I dont think research means much when the researchers just decide whatever they want and then tell us what we should believe.

Uuuummm...wow, just... This statement and the attitude it represents kind of explains a lot about you. I'm a faithful sort, at this point I'm decidedly more of a Jediist than a Jedi Realist, but, I can't defend this, man.

The Jedi of fiction, whom you purport to aspire to directly, literally emulating? They didn't reject science, like, at all.

Also, science is how this conversation is even possible, right now.

Do you want to, maybe, reconsider your choice of words/attitude, here? Maybe think about them, and how well they actually align with your path??

Fyxe, science is not separate from experience. Science requires experimentation (the testing of an idea) and analysis of the results of experimentation. If you have an idea and you try to see if it works and compare it to other ideas that have similar results, that is science. Science is not just scientists making things up, it is the analysis of the phenomenal world -- something of vital importance to understanding the Force. The Force does not stand in opposition to science; it is inseparable from it.

Fyxe wrote: Well I dont follow science and I dont think research means much when the researchers just decide whatever they want and then tell us what we should believe.

That is literally the exact opposite of what science is. It is, however, exactly what you're doing. You're ignoring evidence to believe in whatever you want.

Fyxe wrote: So for you to tell me this place does not believe in the force is just a lie. So why should I think about other things you say?

Another baseless accusation. I don't believe anyone has told you that 'the force is just a lie'. What we've told you is that we don't agree with you're understanding of the force because it is a carbon copy of the one from the movies and has no bearing in reality or rationality.

I honestly can't tell if you're deliberately oblivious to the evidence presented to you, if the discourse here is too nuanced for you to comprehend, or if you're just a troll.

Either way, 4-5 people here have repeatedly and patiently answered your question over several days and across several threads, often providing sources or objective reasoning to assist your understanding. You have pretty much disregarded everything they have said, often accusing of them of saying things they never said, telling them they are 'not real jedi' and suggesting that they shouldn't be here.

Engaging in this conversation any further is beyond pointless. I'm out.

Peace and love people x

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: I totally understand your side, I don’t share it but I don’t have to for you to be valid.

You are right, we don't have to be anything alike. I can carry on respecting the Code, you can carry on rejecting it. I have no investment in your attitude towards it, it is not any of my business.

Fyxe wrote: Well I dont follow science and I dont think research means much when the researchers just decide whatever they want and then tell us what we should believe.

Politicians tell you what you should believe. Preachers tell you what you should believe. Researchers have more pressing things to worry about than what you happen to believe. But, yes, they are people, and they do make decisions just like the rest of us mortals do. Research, however, is not decision making, it is investigating.
Now I can't speak about liberal arts, gender studies, or English literature, where "true from a certain point of view" is so much of a normal and routine approach to making assertions that randomly generated articles can make it past peer review, but as a physicist I can tell you it takes unspeakable amounts of effort to get anything published. Your article has to be well cited, your claim has to be original and profound, your theoretical derivations sound yet comprehensibly simple, your experimental data positively indicative of your claim to a statistical significance economists wouldn't dare dream about and if you want it to be a journal that academic libraries broadly subscribe to you had better present some impactful technological implications even if all you do is fundamental science...

So no... It's not just the researchers "deciding what ever they want". Were I more of a man of passion the sheer arrogance of that portrayal would surely infuriate me. Nor is it about what you should believe. Do feel free to blabber on using your microprocessor computer to speak to people on the other side of the globe about how garbage the very thing is that has gifted you such marvels of technology.

So for you to tell me this place does not believe in the force is just a lie. So why should I think about other things you say?

Technically it is not a lie. Places do not believe things, people do. And as many said before and as I summarized recently myself, different people believe different things. Nobody made a claim about what everybody here does or does not believe, because nobody here was elected to speak on behalf of the rest. The only one lying, frankly, is you, as you say what people told you when they didn't. Now, why should you think about anything anybody says? Well, nothing can oblige you. Feel free to not think, if that is how you'd rather carry on. At the risk of sounding rude or mean, I'm at this point not entirely certain as to how grave a loss that would really be for anyone...