Just saw the fattest, most inarticulate little 4yr old at Wal-Mart

I think its always been that way Ob1Shinobi, and always will be. Nothing anyone can do about it. And so if daft parents want to giggle like lunatics while they stuff their childrens face with synthetic flavored white sugar until their endocrine systems et al develop flaws enough to justify their own resultant morbid obesity to themselves..... then there is nothing anyone can do about it AFAIK. Focus on you mate in this regard, you and yours and anyone who asks for guidance... that is my thought. Judging does incur that risk of not knowing the bigger picture of what is going on, or has gone on, and indeed what might come from, a persons wrong turns in life.

When it comes to parenting, often. You only get to see a glimpse of what's going on as others have pointed out.

Something to consider is also how the parent was raised. We don't usually just make up completely brand new ways to teaching, it's usually an offshoot or a direct response to how they were raised. I can also vouch that when my son was 3 and I was dead exhausted to resorting to mumbled responses, with my son begging to get candy from those very same machines (tip: Children will believe it if you say they're broken).

There are many factors influences that you can not see, and unfortunately being angry about it means very little. Unless you see this family more often and can build a frame of reference to engage the family on an even level, the overall impact is small. The only thing a parent loves more than a child throwing a tantrum in a store is someone yelling them how to parent, but getting to know them to slip in advice is different.

Consider the end result: is the parent more likely to listen to someone who ran them over, or someone who got to know them a little?

...

Humor is an easy way to vent the genuine disgust I have for people who foist unhealthy (in a broad sense) life habits on kids. As much as I know there's aphorisms about walking a mile in their shoes, it's absolutely frustrating to see the Wal Mart type of people throw not only their lives away.

I have no idea what I should do about it, but I'm confronted by poor parenting (and the resultant next generation) more than I'd like. Having special needs might explain the ease of that situation, but doesn't excuse it (and no, I'm not saying that from some lofty, detached pedastal).

You can simultaneously have a sort of abject disgust and empathy

"The Wal-Mart type" reeks of prejudice. I am, (quite possibly), the Wal-Mart type equivalent of my nation. For Germans, Tedi is the hangout I'm thinking - bench outside... the guy who takes parcels for Hermes... Few early morning beers knocking about... I don't have obesity issues (Europeans generally suffer from that less), but I do have issues with being judged based on ... Nothing. No actual real information exchange. Just a look, and a judgement. No conversation to clarify situations or understandings. Just decisions made on the basis that I would rather be outside my house, than inside my house. With people who talk my language(s) than don't. With people who share experiences than don't. A sugar high might be less painful and dangerous than an illegal one, and give some release to the draining tension of daily life on the boundaries of society. I've turned to it plenty of times.

Sure, people could do more to come in from the cold. But a lack of judgement, and in fact a warm welcome when they do is possibly a better way to help than running someone over in a car park, or jokes about the fact we are too stupid and lazy to enter into society... This is distinctly unhelpful behavior if you want people to believe that "society" treats people respectfully, because you know you are a person, it's just that you are being judged as some lesser kind... By someone who knows as much as John Snow. Years of that takes years to heal. Generations of that will take generations. So I emplore that we please start now, and remove "Wal-Mart type" from our vocabularies. - I have my own things I have my prejudices about, so I don't exclude myself from this practice one bit!

Twigga wrote: "The Wal-Mart type" reeks of prejudice. I am, (quite possibly), the Wal-Mart type equivalent of my nation. For Germans, Tedi is the hangout I'm thinking - bench outside... the guy who takes parcels for Hermes... Few early morning beers knocking about... I don't have obesity issues (Europeans generally suffer from that less), but I do have issues with being judged based on ... Nothing. No actual real information exchange. Just a look, and a judgement. No conversation to clarify situations or understandings. Just decisions made on the basis that I would rather be outside my house, than inside my house. With people who talk my language(s) than don't. With people who share experiences than don't. A sugar high might be less painful and dangerous than an illegal one, and give some release to the draining tension of daily life on the boundaries of society. I've turned to it plenty of times.

Sure, people could do more to come in from the cold. But a lack of judgement, and in fact a warm welcome when they do is possibly a better way to help than running someone over in a car park, or jokes about the fact we are too stupid and lazy to enter into society... This is distinctly unhelpful behavior if you want people to believe that "society" treats people respectfully, because you know you are a person, it's just that you are being judged as some lesser kind... By someone who knows as much as John Snow. Years of that takes years to heal. Generations of that will take generations. So I emplore that we please start now, and remove "Wal-Mart type" from our vocabularies. - I have my own things I have my prejudices about, so I don't exclude myself from this practice one bit!

Well said, Twigga. I’m sure others may not agree and believe we may be doing them a “disservice” by not pointing out their stereotypes and other issues they are displaying. To that point I would step in and say something if the person was physically abusing the child or a partner in the store. But that comes under Justice in the 21 Maxims.

The fact that obeisity has become such an epidemic does show that parents are not properly educated or just don’t care. When I was 25 my dad apologized to me one day, out of no where and just randomly. I asked him why he apologized and he said “I knew better. I let you drink all that chocolate milk, all that soda and eat yourself sick and I didn’t do anything but insult you and told you not to do it instead of taking responsibility and stopping you like I should have. For that, I am sorry and please don’t make that same mistake with your kids.” I fit that typical Wal Martian fat dude description but I don’t let that define me. It doesn’t stop me from going into Wal Mart. I look around and see many of the same stereotypes and issues going on but I’ve gone into higher end stores and seen the same thing. A trip to the local mall is just another episode of “What Not to Wear”. In America, Wal Mart has become the everyday scene regardless of what store you are in, at least here and the other city and states I’ve visited, which has been quite a few.

There are many ways to handle those awkward issues, especially when it involves children, that could have been employed in the scenario provided. If it was that concerning I would have went to the women and started a simple conversation by asking if the little girl was still learning to speak. I have deaf people in my family and some family members who are not so polite about it, and yes, one is a mother and daughter and the mother constantly made fun of her daughter when she was growing up. Most people would have looked at the way she treated my cousin as abuse sand there were many times her mother would beat her just because she couldn’t talk correctly. I don’t know if this was the case at Wal Mart but it wouldn’t be our place to step in and “correct” the mother of her friend/partner.

This is a wonderful conversation. Thank you Ob1. I think that anger and disgust can be put to use in a less "violent" way. There may be people in your circle of six (children and adults) who might benefit from what you have discovered here:
1. That you do not like that some children are not coached to learn despite what may be a distinct set of disadvantages
2. That you have the desire, skills, patience required to provide that coaching if the parent(s) will let you
You may never see that young girl and her mother again, but there are plenty of ways to volunteer or work with a similar population who would love your help
https://www.volunteermatch.org/

It's justifiable to be angry with social circumstances... obesity, learning difficulties, etc... Those are the things you work to fix. Get involved with local organizations that focus on those sort of issues. But "citizen's justice" like that never works and only causes more harm in the long run.

First of all - Hey hun, long time no chat.

Secondly....in principle and on a whiteboard, I agree with you - in practice...not so much.

I live in an area where the overall data is...people are rubbish.

Their parents were rubbish, they turned out rubbish, and there is evidence anyone they raise will be rubbish.

It's nice to assess every individual separately and understand that there are all sorts of factors, but (for example) - an area that has consistently high crime (of the overt robbery, assault, etc kind, and the more mundane driving without a licence, and welfare fraud types), poor employment levels, and a high rate of single-teen mother births means there is something "rotten in denmark"

This is where you decide what level of management you want to work at - do you make friends with one person who's circumstances have led them to a pretty average place, and may require assistance to avoid replicating it,

or do you set the whole place on fire and call it a necessary evil for the greater good.



Funny thought though- Watch people with their dogs - you'll quickly identify the ones who put no effort into making their dog's life better and making that dog a better "citizen"

People get upset if you offer to help fix their broken children, but are often actually quite open to assistance with "fixing" their "broken" dog (that they raised badly).