Heaven - Does it exist?

I have been contemplating the concept of Heaven and I am wondering what you might thing? What is your perspective on the subject?

Does it exist? Is it "real" like the book "Heaven Exists" states or is it a "religious" ply to get people to go to church?

For me, I feel that it is real and a perspective.

As a perspective - I can have Heaven or Hell here on Earth in my life. I am either living in Hell or in Heaven. I am either living in shame, fear and sacristy or I am living in Love, acceptance and abundance. In general I do my best to be in a continual state of love and appreciation. And I find a lot of people choosing to live in Hell - since misery loves company. I notice how people bond and connect via complaining and gossiping. We love our Drama. It fuels people's lives and connection. I appreciate Divine Drama and I like my theatrical drama. I do my best to avoid real drama in my daily life.

I also think the concept of "Heaven" is real. I feel that when we die and return to the Force - the Source of all things, we are in Heaven. Everyone is there. We are all returned to the oneness that we came from. We return to the fully actualized Divine Self that we are, which is diminished by being manifest in our Human form. In our Divine Unity - there is no "hell" for we are whole and Loving.

When I reflect on my religious studies, I recall that most religions have this view - that we all return to the one place. We all go to the afterlife to be together. In the Bible, this is called Sheol. It can be: Hel, Hades, Sheol, Heaven, Asguard, The Force, and many other names. It was later through the Christians that I believe Heaven and Hell were invented as a form of control. So studies say that "Hell" as we know it came from the duelistic religion Zoasterism or Zoroastrianism.

So I choose to live in Heaven with all of my Brothers.

What do you think?

baru wrote: I also think the concept of "Heaven" is real. I feel that when we die and return to the Force - the Source of all things, we are in Heaven. Everyone is there. We are all returned to the oneness that we came from. We return to the fully actualized Divine Self that we are, which is diminished by being manifest in our Human form.

I can't understand this particular belief of the religions that propagate it, and it is one I hope is completely based on myth and has no factual application.

To die and loose all sense of myself is one thing, to fade into oblivion - this i cannot accept nor find comfort in..

To die and go to an afterlife where I am absorbed into another being, and loose all sense of individuality which made me who I was, would be worse to me than fading into nothingness.

I can't understand why anyone would be excited or enthusiastic about an afterlife where the person they are, would cease to exist. If you are absorbed and become one with this "all-force", you cease to be you any longer, and then what is the point of an afterlife?

I value my individuality above all other things, and If I cannot have that preserved in an afterlife where there are intelligent beings, then it might as well be hell.

We discussed this very recently, but may or may not answer your question, here: http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/index.php/forum?view=topic&catid=3&id=107231#150202

The link did not seem to work.

We are one and we are unique. Do we deny the oneness to maintain our uniqueness or do we completely surrender your individuality for the oneness?

Like an atom, a molecule and a drop of water - is still part of something. It is the sum of the parts of the whole. but it is still one with the object that it comprises - like a drop of water in the Ocean. It is still the drop and it is the ocean.

We do have a word for life. Its "life". We also do have a word for the unpleasant pats of it. Its "misery". And we have a word for the pleasant parts of it, too. Its "bliss".

As a dear friend of mine keeps saying every now and again, words mean things.
In the history of our language and our cultural background, words like heaven and hell did not just came to mean but rather were invented to be substitute for the concept of real places of pleasure and pain respectively. Of course nobody is in any position to tell you how to speak, so if you want to cause confusion where none is necessary, go ahead and call the pleasant bits of your life heaven and the unpleasant ones hell. If however you wish to be understood without having to explain yourself every other time, you'd be well advised to express yourself according to what it is you mean.

On a side note, while it has been mentioned, I think I need to address the concept of oneness really quick. For it is one thing to say that all things are intertwined and connected in the sense that they are inevitably interacting with each other at just about any time at least during this stage of the universe and in our particular proximity. And it is quite a different and factually wrong thing to say that thusly all things are indeed one or the same thing, even if there is ultimately a set with properties so vague that it unites all of them and even if they are consisting of more or less similar stuff. And I can elaborate if I have to though this topic is about something else, so I'll leave it at this for the time being.

as a 10 year physics student and scientist i can only say, we don't have enough information to disprove heaven exists but if i were a betting man i would say no : )

if i was on a plane and it was going down i would still say a quick prayer tho hahahahah : )

Luthien wrote: We discussed this very recently, but may or may not answer your question, here: http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/index.php/forum?view=topic&catid=3&id=107231#150202

Well, I certainly mucked that one up. Last time I try to copy & paste a link through the Tapatalk app. :blush: This is what I meant to reference. :laugh:

Gisteron wrote: We do have a word for life. Its "life". We also do have a word for the unpleasant pats of it. Its "misery". And we have a word for the pleasant parts of it, too. Its "bliss".

" words mean things."
In the history of our language and our cultural background, words like heaven and hell did not just came to mean but rather were invented to be substitute for the concept of real places of pleasure and pain respectively. Of course nobody is in any position to tell you how to speak, so if you want to cause confusion where none is necessary, go ahead and call the pleasant bits of your life heaven and the unpleasant ones hell. If however you wish to be understood without having to explain yourself every other time, you'd be well advised to express yourself according to what it is you mean.

Gisteron - I love specificity. I love the meaning of words. I like that "thoughts are things". I am being very accurate in my usage of the word Heaven and Hell. I am referring to the concept of Heaven on Earth - and that choice that Beings have to be in this Heaven - manifest on Earth right now (and not wait till death and the afterlife to experience it). I am stating that Heaven is a perspective and a state of mind. Heaven is a "real place". If I choose it, it can be the place that I draw from and Live. I can be in Heaven - I am in Heaven right now. I am either in Heaven or I am in Hell. If a person is truly living in Heaven, then everything thing is Divine and acceptable - because it exists. Everything is a representation of the Force. If I live in a dualistic world that has "conditions" on it, then I am living in Hell. I am living in Hell because I am swinging on a pendulum of "bliss" or pleasure and "misery", pain or displeasure. Hell is resisting what is and having "judgements" about this existence. "happiness" is accepting what is and appreciating that you, I, we have the pleasure of experiencing it.

And I am happy to discuss this at any time. I am glad to explore these concepts in an effort to inspire people to evaluate and question these concepts in relationship to the choices people make and how we choice to live our lives.

Gisteron wrote: I think I need to address the concept of oneness really quick. For it is one thing to say that all things are intertwined and connected in the sense that they are inevitably interacting with each other at just about any time at least during this stage of the universe and in our particular proximity. And it is quite a different and factually wrong thing to say that thusly all things are indeed one or the same thing, even if there is ultimately a set with properties so vague that it unites all of them and even if they are consisting of more or less similar stuff. And I can elaborate if I have to though this topic is about something else, so I'll leave it at this for the time being.

Yes, please elaborate - preferably in a different thread, but I would enjoy reading your thoughts on the topic. I might even be better off posting these thoughts in a different thread since they get way from the question about Heaven. At the same time, it is here, and I did suggest that in "Heaven" we are all one, soooo here goes.

I do believe there is a lot of "science" out there that demonstrates and justifies the truth that we are all one.

sites like this write about it:
http://www.yourdivineinheritance.com/universal_oneness_web_sites.html
http://www.empowermentofoneness.com/holographic-universe/

Holographic Universe talks about how we are all one reflection of the hole.
We are built of the same "space stuff" and atomic partials. And our spiritual "knowing" knows that we are all connected.

I like that the word "alone" is a shortening of the statement "all one". we are alone together.

Based on the definitions of the Force that I have read and heard, the majority of them all say that we are one with the force which makes us all one with each other.

In a Heavenly perspective, we are all one, perfect, Divine, and complete. We are one with the force and we are the holographic reflection of it.

"On an island of gold, ordinary stones and earth are hard to find even if they are searched for"

I really like the idea of Heaven on Earth, the here and now, but I also like to wonder if an afterlife exists that it might get better. I know one can experience a prototypical heaven in dreams and hallucination, but it's no clue as to any persistent tangible state like what the title is used to mean. So why not work with what we've got in the meantime!!