"Being an ally" vs "Professing your allegiance"

  • kriel
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09 Mar 2012 08:28 - 09 Mar 2012 08:29 #52895 by kriel
I'm exploring the oath, and the implications that it contains. One phrase in particular has got me stuck for the moment.

The oath wrote: "I profess before all my fellow Jedi that I, ........... born on ........, without reservation, choose the Jedi path, [...] with all its duties and responsibilities. I shall do that which is right and profess my allegiance to the Force and its will. During that time I promise to do my utmost to uphold the Jedi teachings, and to live a life as is worthy of a Jedi."


I would define an ally as anyone who works towards a common cause. Friends are (should be) Allies, as they help you move towards whatever goals you set, whether by providing comfort and rapport or by actively helping you with your actions.

I am an ally of the force. If the Force called upon me to act, and it was in line with my (morals? code? not sure what the proper word is), then I would gladly act without hesitation.

However, professing allegiance has a much different connotation to it.

Wiktionary defines allegiance as "Loyalty to some cause, nation or ruler."

Loyalty mentions being faithful , which in turn mentions being reliable and worthy of trust.

Another definition of allegiance mentions devotion , which circles around the ideas of dedication and zealoutry (.. I think that's a word.)

... None of this defines allegiance, other than throwing a bunch of keywords into a pot.

What does it mean to profess your allegiance? Does this differ from being an ally? How?
Last edit: 09 Mar 2012 08:29 by kriel.

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09 Mar 2012 08:53 #52897 by Ben
To me, allegiance here does not mean anything like either ‘worship’ or ‘servitude’. The Force is not a deity, and as such it does not require us to worship it, and we should not be slaves to the Force - I do not believe that it ‘commands’ as such, rather calls us and/or gives us guidance which we are free to accept or ignore.

I take this part of the oath to be firstly an affirmation of belief in the Force, which is the foundation of the Jediism faith. I also take it to mean that I will try to interpret and use any guidance that the Force gives me.

The main reason that I would not class the Force as my ally is that I believe that we are all parts of the Force manifested in physical forms (if you’ve looked at any of the Initiate Programme yet you may have noticed that this is a running theme). I don’t think that it is possible to be my own ally, but I do think that it is possible to pledge allegiance to one’s true self, saying ‘Yes, I will be me’, or perhaps ‘Yes, I acknowledge and accept my identity as part of the living Force, and will act accordingly’, and being loyal and true to yourself.

I’m not sure how much sense I’m making to anyone other than me, I hope you can kind of understand what I'm trying to say :)


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09 Mar 2012 08:56 - 09 Mar 2012 08:58 #52898 by Adder
I'm no lawyer but I think the mechanism of the Simple Oath is the action of the Simple Oath's impermanence using the permanence of the word allegiance to act as an instrument of precondition to taking the Solemn Vow. I think having a period under the Simple Oath gives greater credibility to the Solemn Vow because it serves to add assurances that someone taking the Solemn Vow has done so without ignorance or error etc. What I mean by that is it is a chance to experience and commit yourself to conditions which represent what the Solemn Vow are, without making an everlasting association.

So while I think allies definatly have an allegiance, I also think the nature of an allegiance could vary so much that even enemies could have states of allegiance on some issues. Therefore the Simple Oath is a period of time you choose to profess (declare) allegiance (dedication) for whatever purpose you wish to study the Force and Jediism here at the Temple, for as long as you wish to do it... nothing more. Thats how I read it anyway.

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Last edit: 09 Mar 2012 08:58 by Adder. Reason: spelling

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  • Jacen solo
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09 Mar 2012 09:11 #52901 by Jacen solo
Replied by Jacen solo on topic "Being an ally" vs "Professing your allegiance"
I like V-Tog's answer on this one. We are all one with the force so it would be like the force is helping us and guiding us through life

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  • kriel
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09 Mar 2012 21:55 #52940 by kriel
Thank you all for your thoughts, I appreciate them.

V-Tog wrote: The Force is not a deity

That is a good point. I had danced around that idea in my own meditations, but hearing it phrased like that brings it into a new light.

I take this part of the oath to be firstly an affirmation of belief in the Force

Another good point. I can agree with that.

[We] are all parts of the Force manifested in physical forms

Interesting. I can definitely see, and agree with that. So far I've skimmed the initiate program, however I'm just now diving into the materials within.

I don’t think that it is possible to be my own ally

That, I would argue. Yes, you can (and in my opinion, do) have a relationship with yourself. And it can definitely be antagonistic. I've experienced that first-hand. However, it can also be a positive, beneficial relationship wherein you 'help yourself'.

I do think that it is possible to pledge allegiance to one’s true self

That's.. an interesting, and deep saying. I'll have to do some serious thinking on that one. (intuitively, I agree, but that sentence leads much deeper down the rabbit hole)

I’m not sure how much sense I’m making to anyone other than me, I hope you can kind of understand what I'm trying to say

Perfectly clear (to me, at least), thank you.

I'd like to continue replying, but I have other things asking my attention. I'll be back.

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  • kriel
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10 Mar 2012 01:03 #52956 by kriel

Adder wrote: I think the mechanism of the Simple Oath is the action of the Simple Oath's impermanence using the permanence of the word allegiance to act as an instrument of precondition to taking the Solemn Vow. I think having a period under the Simple Oath gives greater credibility to the Solemn Vow because it serves to add assurances that someone taking the Solemn Vow has done so without ignorance or error etc. What I mean by that is it is a chance to experience and commit yourself to conditions which represent what the Solemn Vow are, without making an everlasting association.

That makes sense. A trial period, of sorts.

I don't feel comfortable seeing it as an impermanent thing. It's an oath, not an introduction. Words like that are not to be taken lightly.

I also think the nature of an allegiance could vary so much that even enemies could have states of allegiance on some issues.

That's an interesting point. In my own meditations, I found that 'allegiance' and 'relationship' were similar, however not all relationships are positive.

That said, It feels like a.. formal declaration, not necessarily a transitive property. I don't think an allegiance (in the form we're talking) happens accidentally. Enemies, while they may both apply their own morals and, say, not attack the medics, I wouldn't consider having an allegiance.

[The] Simple Oath is a period of time you choose to profess (declare) allegiance (dedication) for whatever purpose you wish to study the Force and Jediism here at the Temple, for as long as you wish to do it... nothing more

I've already decided to study here for awhile. So, under that interpretation, I'm already acting as if under the oath... even though I feel uncomfortable declaring it outright.

hm. Interesting.

Thank you for that.

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  • Planet of Chaos
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10 Mar 2012 18:04 #53006 by Planet of Chaos
Replied by Planet of Chaos on topic "Being an ally" vs "Professing your allegiance"
Well, pledging your allegiance to the Force wouldn't be something I'd debate if I wanted to become a Jedi. What are you pledging allegiance to? Everything! Life and Death, it's integrity, your path and the path of others around you! You are already an ally of the Force.. You want to continue existing, don't you? You and the Force have common interests then lol.

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