Sorry if I am asking so many questions

  • SeekerofTruth
  • SeekerofTruth's Avatar Topic Author
  • Guest
03 Jan 2012 17:01 - 03 Jan 2012 17:13 #47058 by SeekerofTruth
Sorry if I am asking so many questions was created by SeekerofTruth
I've been browsing this forum through the night and am curious about the Knights Vow. Apperently its for life.

You have to forgive me if I am so curious, but why is this? We are constantly changing, learning, and evolving as individuals. The person you are now is not the person you will be in twenty years. Its most likely my ignorance shining through. From what I have seen from the teachings here its all about obtaining self enlightenment and trying to understand the all encompassing Force around us. Also upholding compassion and understanding and coming to peace within oneself.

Is the vow dedicating you to upholding jedi values or does it pertain to being a member of this church?

Again please forgive my ignorance, I am trying to remedy that ignorance with these questions.

Regards,
Seeker of Truth Esq.
Last edit: 03 Jan 2012 17:13 by SeekerofTruth.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Jan 2012 17:45 #47059 by Gisteron
Noone will follow you stalking whether or not you in any occasion follow the values given to you here. By the time you will be taking the Vow you will be sure that this is the right path for you, and if not, no one will force you to take it. Following the path is possible without but training apprentices not (its a formality for what I get). And while it is thought to be for a lifetime, it sometimes happens that it isn't. After all, a marriage is also thought to be for a lifetime and rarely is nowadays.
Anyway, its not that one day you intend to work against yourself and the people intentionally, so you likely wouldn't break the Vow anyway if you don't have to in some case.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • SeekerofTruth
  • SeekerofTruth's Avatar Topic Author
  • Guest
03 Jan 2012 19:20 #47062 by SeekerofTruth
Replied by SeekerofTruth on topic Sorry if I am asking so many questions

Gisteron wrote: Noone will follow you stalking whether or not you in any occasion follow the values given to you here. By the time you will be taking the Vow you will be sure that this is the right path for you, and if not, no one will force you to take it. Following the path is possible without but training apprentices not (its a formality for what I get). And while it is thought to be for a lifetime, it sometimes happens that it isn't. After all, a marriage is also thought to be for a lifetime and rarely is nowadays.
Anyway, its not that one day you intend to work against yourself and the people intentionally, so you likely wouldn't break the Vow anyway if you don't have to in some case.


Thanks for the informative response. That helped bring it into perspective for me. Much thanks.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Jan 2012 19:26 #47063 by Akkarin
*stalks your other posts...*

I am someone who has finished my apprenticeship and am awaiting my public and official knighthood where I will take the solemn vow publicly.

I personally can see no other following I may take in future and so am very much aware that this will be very much for life.

That sounds daunting, but from the way I see it, it's what I've been doing so far, so I don't see what would really change.

In your initial post you have come across the perhaps only way in which you can get out of your solemn vow; what if you've changed?

What if, when you take the vow, you are one person but then you somehow through whatever means become a completely different person? There is an argument there that the vow applies only to the former and not the latter.

But if that is what you're thinking, about whether it is any longer valid, well that is a Jedi attribute in itself. I think anyone who stands by reason and calmness and forethought would find it almost impossibly hard to break a vow as all things are Jedi-like.

FAQ wrote: take a Solemn Jedi Vow (taken at their public Knighting) declare their complete and binding commitment to the ways of the Force as prescribed at TOTJO

Home page wrote:
Jedi Believe:

We adopt this statement with gratitude from and to ReligiousTolerance.org



In the inherent worth of every person. People are worthy of respect, support, and caring simply because they are human.

In working towards a culture that is relatively free of discrimination on the basis of gender, race, sexual orientation, national origin, degree of ability, age, etc.

In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment including the death penalty. (1)

In the importance of democracy within religious, political and other structures.

In the separation of church and state; and the freedoms of speech, association, and expression. (2)

That the systems of truth in the field of morals, ethics, and religious belief that we have studied are not absolute: they vary by culture, by religion, and over time.

In the generally positive influence that most religions have had on their followers and on society. (3)

In the importance of individual believers determining evil influences and policies within their chosen faith group, and advocate for their correction.

In the importance of education. We believe that people are not truly educated unless they have studied at least the world's major religions and ethical systems. They need to learn of the good and bad impacts they have had on society. (4)

In a just society with laws grounded in reason, compassion, health and human rights and in which fears and prejudices have no part.

Footnotes and Exceptions:

(1) However, like the rest of North American society, we have not been able to reach a consensus about when human life, in the form of a spermatozoon and an ovum, becomes a human person deserving civil rights.
(2) However we have not been able to reach a consensus about the age at which an individual should fully enjoy these freedoms. We also recognize that some of these freedoms should have limits. For example, we do not feel that, in most cases, parents should be allowed to let their children die if medical treatment will assure a cure. We do not feel that individuals should be free to advocate genocide or yell "fire" in a crowded theatre.
(3) Exceptions are a handful of destructive cults which have had an overall negative effect.
(4) They need to understand the religious sources that inspired Gandhi, Albert Schweitzer, and Mother Teresa to commit their life to the alleviation of human suffering. But they also need to learn the shadow side of religion: how religious beliefs have contributed to hatred, intolerance, oppression, discrimination, as well as mass murders and genocides in such places as Nazi Germany, Bosnia, East Timor, Kosovo, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, Sudan and countless other countries.


That is perhaps the most key attribute of being a Jedi (as trained here). I will find it hard to break any of the aforementioned beliefs, as I'm sure you or anyone else who takes the vow will find.

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it except for one man, but the tree falls on that man and kills him, does the man dying make a sound?" - Jon Lajoie

Apprentice: Desolous , Xaii
Master: Br. John

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Jan 2012 20:03 #47064 by Mark Anjuu
It may help if you think of the Oath and Vow like this:

The Simple Oath is for you to commit to exploring the ways of Jediism as defined here at TOTJO, but it does not bind you permanently. Rather it shows your dedication to learning and developing under our Doctrine. It also allows us to see if you are serious about the training.

Once you have completed the Initiate's Programme and then undertaken an apprenticeship, you have a decision to make. The average time for this is 1 year although it may be a lot longer according to your needs. So then you decide whether or not to commit fully to our Temple by signing the Solemn Vow. It's the same as, for example, converting to Catholicism. It shows that you will fully dedicate yourself to following the teachings of the Church to which you belong.

But we're not a cult that sucks you in and then prevents you from leaving. If your life changes significantly and you no longer feel that Jediism is for you, then we (the senior members of the Church) can release you from your Vow with no hard feelings! If you have only signed the Oath, you are free to walk away at any time (the Oath itself states that you are bound to it "until I am ready for Jedi Knighthood or I otherwise decide").

More importantly that that, the Oath and Vow are for you. They are a way for you to show and demonstrate your dedication to our teachings and Doctrine. Does this make sense? Feel free to ask more if you need to.

Rev. Mark Barwell OCP
  • Pastor of the Order
  • Vice President, Bishop and Councillor of TOTJO
  • Arch-Bishop of the U.K.
  • GrandMaster Knight of Jediism
  • Paganism Special Interest Advisor
Apprentices: Leena, Darren, Slydogstags, meatloaf, Rosalyn J
Former Apprentices: Karn, Angelus, Adder, Phortis Nespin

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Jan 2012 20:07 #47065 by Mark Anjuu
As for your other question:

When posting in your journal, please post everything as a reply to one main topic. Although (as Br.John has stated) you are free to post separate topics for each part (as long as each one is clearly marked with your username in the title), it makes it a lot easier for those of us who need to read your journals if we can simply access them in one place instead of having to search through the forum section for all the separate parts. It also helps you to access your work more easily.

Have you read the FAQ (there is a link at the top of each page)? The answers to both your questions can be found there. We are also open to suggestions about rewording information if it is not too clear so please let us know if you found this to be the case.

Rev. Mark Barwell OCP
  • Pastor of the Order
  • Vice President, Bishop and Councillor of TOTJO
  • Arch-Bishop of the U.K.
  • GrandMaster Knight of Jediism
  • Paganism Special Interest Advisor
Apprentices: Leena, Darren, Slydogstags, meatloaf, Rosalyn J
Former Apprentices: Karn, Angelus, Adder, Phortis Nespin

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • SeekerofTruth
  • SeekerofTruth's Avatar Topic Author
  • Guest
04 Jan 2012 07:33 - 04 Jan 2012 07:44 #47109 by SeekerofTruth
Replied by SeekerofTruth on topic Sorry if I am asking so many questions

Mark Anjuu wrote: As for your other question:

When posting in your journal, please post everything as a reply to one main topic. Although (as Br.John has stated) you are free to post separate topics for each part (as long as each one is clearly marked with your username in the title), it makes it a lot easier for those of us who need to read your journals if we can simply access them in one place instead of having to search through the forum section for all the separate parts. It also helps you to access your work more easily.

Have you read the FAQ (there is a link at the top of each page)? The answers to both your questions can be found there. We are also open to suggestions about rewording information if it is not too clear so please let us know if you found this to be the case.


I was thinking the exact same thing. Seems like it would be easier to organize if its all in one topic. Thanks for the help.

P.S
I read the F.A.Q last night. I just needed some clarification on the oaths, sorry if I wasted your time.
Last edit: 04 Jan 2012 07:44 by SeekerofTruth.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Jan 2012 08:21 #47114 by Akkarin

SeekerofTruth wrote: I read the F.A.Q last night. I just needed some clarification on the oaths, sorry if I wasted your time.


You don't have to be sorry for anything :)

I don't think any of us will hate you for asking some questions lol

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it except for one man, but the tree falls on that man and kills him, does the man dying make a sound?" - Jon Lajoie

Apprentice: Desolous , Xaii
Master: Br. John

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • SeekerofTruth
  • SeekerofTruth's Avatar Topic Author
  • Guest
04 Jan 2012 08:49 #47118 by SeekerofTruth
Replied by SeekerofTruth on topic Sorry if I am asking so many questions
:D

You guys are so friendly. I really appreciate the warm welcome.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: EdanKobosBrick