IP discussion in Temple Chat - Wednesday, March 9th at 1830 UTC

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03 Mar 2016 19:16 #231597 by Breeze el Tierno
I will be hosting an IP Discussion in our chat room at 1830 UTC on March 9th of 2016.

The topic of the day will be Joseph Campbell! Those of you just starting your IP will want to get in on this. Happy to address other topics as necessary.

Punctuality is awesome. Come ready to work.

Click here for your local time. All are welcome. I hope to see all you Novices there!
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03 Mar 2016 20:53 - 03 Mar 2016 20:58 #231616 by MartaLina
Friday, March 9th at 1830 UTC ?? The next one is in 2018 :laugh:
Last edit: 03 Mar 2016 20:58 by MartaLina.

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07 Mar 2016 13:55 #232200 by Breeze el Tierno
Bump to the Ump!

Two days and eight hours.

Wear a helmet!

:unsure: :woohoo: :dry:

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08 Mar 2016 22:08 #232483 by Breeze el Tierno
20 hours, 20 minutes.

Let's talk about Myth.

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09 Mar 2016 08:20 #232545 by MartaLina
Lets talk about Myths baby
Lets talk about you and me
Lets talk about all the Heroes
that there were
And still will Be

Lets talk about Myths (2x)

:laugh:

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09 Mar 2016 18:31 #232630 by Breeze el Tierno
Beginning now. Let's do this, Novices!

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09 Mar 2016 20:20 #232648 by Breeze el Tierno
Cabur_Senaar: okay.
(13:38:38) MartaLina: ow thats enough to start a discussion Kit
(13:38:46) Cabur_Senaar: re-enacting myths
(13:38:51) Kit: I do waaay too much writing to not appreciate Myth
(13:39:01) Kit: and I use it in my Pathfinder campaign too
(13:39:12) Tibarus: Could I join the disccusion
(13:39:20) Cabur_Senaar: please do!
(13:39:24) MartaLina: of course Tibarus
(13:39:29) Cabur_Senaar: Have you begun your IP?
(13:39:36) Kit: Nothing catches a player's attention like living a myth
(13:40:12) Tibarus: I've watched three of first lessons videos i joined yesterday
(13:40:23) steamboat28: Welcome, then, Tibarus
(13:40:26) Cabur_Senaar: Fantastic.
(13:40:26) Kit: welcome
(13:40:37) Cabur_Senaar: I suppose we should begin with questions.
(13:40:42) Temple Bot: Brick has joined the chat.
(13:40:52) MartaLina: heyy Brick :)
(13:40:52) Kit pounces Brick
(13:40:56) Cabur_Senaar: What was your impression? Any thoughts?
(13:41:04) Reliah: Hello Brick :)
(13:41:07) Cabur_Senaar: Hi, Brick. Jump in.
(13:41:10) Brick is pounced
(13:41:18) Brick: Hi all
(13:41:40) Tibarus: Don't get be started I couldn't get enogh of him if it wasn't 4 am I would of watched more
(13:41:59) Cabur_Senaar: Actually, getting you started is precisely the goal.
(13:42:21) MartaLina: i know Tibarus loll
(13:42:39) Kit: I love listening to Campbell
(13:42:49) steamboat28: Campbell reminds me of somebody's grandpa. I never get tired of hearing him talk.
(13:43:04) Brick: Yeah, really enjoy the Campbell vids
(13:43:12) Tibarus: Its so interesting and like he said you gotta find your right progaming and honestly I'm feeling its this temple
(13:43:27) Proteus: And Watts, the crazy cooky uncle :D
(13:43:27) Cabur_Senaar: Im glad to hear it.
(13:43:42) Cabur_Senaar: So, lets talk about myth for a moment.
(13:44:07) Cabur_Senaar: Campbell points out that we re-enact them.
(13:44:08) Tibarus: Where do we start ha
(13:44:12) Cabur_Senaar: Thoughts?
(13:44:47) Cabur_Senaar: I ask because there is an inherent danger here.
(13:45:11) Tibarus: A more monderized verison
(13:45:23) Cabur_Senaar: go on
(13:46:00) Cabur_Senaar: anyone, really.
(13:46:17) steamboat28: We do, Cabur. We re-enact them all the time, even when we don't realize it.
(13:46:24) Cabur_Senaar: true
(13:46:44) Proteus: I think its a two way street. We re-enact myths, but also, myths are a model of the experiences we already act out too.
(13:46:57) steamboat28: The lion's share of religious ceremonies and rituals are re-enactments, many secular ceremonies and rituals are, also. We even re-enact modern myths, myths we've seen on screens and in comics.
(13:47:15) Cabur_Senaar: Give Tib and Brick a shot.
(13:47:25) Tibarus: Like Prometheus with the flame it was fire back then he braught to humans but now man is looking for something new not fire but maybe something we have no concept of yet
(13:48:08) Cabur_Senaar: And so, has man cast himself in the role of Prometheus?
(13:48:54) Tibarus: No not man but I thino the world needs a hero something to bring us together as fire did in the days of old
(13:49:39) Cabur_Senaar: Interesting.
(13:49:42) Temple Bot: Snowy_Aftermath has joined the chat.
(13:49:50) Cabur_Senaar: Hi, Snowy.
(13:49:53) MartaLina: hi Snowy :)
(13:50:02) Snowy_Aftermath: hey all :)
(13:50:09) Cabur_Senaar: So, tell me about the hero.
(13:50:24) Tibarus: As campbell said the word of man has not reached god or something like that
(13:50:28) MartaLina: hi ROn
(13:50:36) ron1944: hello
(13:50:43) Temple Bot: elizabeth has joined the chat.
(13:50:43) Cabur_Senaar: Welcome.
).
(13:50:54) ron1944: tnx
(13:51:19) Cabur_Senaar: But who is that story, the Prometheus story, about?
(13:52:09) Cabur_Senaar: I want to give the people still working on the IP first shot, but anyone please hop in.
(13:52:13) Temple Bot: JS has joined the chat.
(13:52:37) MartaLina: hi Js , you are on time for the discussions on Myths the lessons of IP welcome :)
(13:53:15) steamboat28: Most of the versions of that myth worldwide focus on the Promethean character, the seeker of forbidden knowledge that revolutionizes the world of man.
(13:53:27) JS: Thank you Martalina , thanx to your post on the wall I'm here :)
(13:53:45) Temple Bot: elizabeth has been logged out (Timeout).
(13:53:46) Tibarus: So hard to get the right words
(13:53:57) ron1944: i havent really understand how am i start to study and what am i need to do now,can someone help me?
(13:54:14) Cabur_Senaar: Certainly, but Campbell points out that the story is really about us.
(13:54:23) Cabur_Senaar: Sure, Ron.
(13:54:31) ron1944: tnx
(13:54:32) MartaLina: yes about us not handeling knowledge very well?
(13:54:55) Cabur_Senaar: Perhaps, or seeking a new way, or moving away from dependence.
(13:55:07) Cabur_Senaar: Or the sacrifices we make for our community.
(13:55:13) steamboat28: But, ultimately, the story is about the cost of that knowledge, and the power it brings to mankind.
(13:55:14) MartaLina: affirmative
(13:55:21) JS: Comimg to realization why we are here ?
(13:55:22) steamboat28: (sorry. had to put my beard up. lol)
(13:55:24) Cabur_Senaar: Therein, it has some similarity to the Tyr and Fenris Wolf myth.
(13:55:29) Temple Bot: elizabeth has joined the chat.
(13:55:53) Cabur_Senaar: So, we re-enact myth all the time.
(13:55:56) MartaLina: i think more handeling the truths of why we are here JS imo
(13:56:25) JS: Makes more sense thank you MartaLina
(13:56:27) Cabur_Senaar: And, as long as we treat them as metaphor, they remain open to readings.
(13:56:44) Cabur_Senaar: But what happens when we make our myths literal.
(13:56:46) Tibarus: They could be interpreted in so many different ways
(13:57:01) Cabur_Senaar: And what happens when we still re-enact myths we take as literal fact?
(13:57:18) Tibarus: We fight
(13:57:23) Tibarus: War
(13:57:28) Proteus: we get out the goat and capture us a virgin? :P
(13:57:29) Temple Bot: Avalonslight has joined the chat.
(13:57:29) JS: Cabur_Senaar: we repeat mistakes ? Sometomes learn from it ?
(13:57:43) JS: Mistakes such as war
(13:57:55) Cabur_Senaar: Depending on the myth we seek to re-enact, all of these things could be.
(13:58:01) Tibarus: Like campbell said about the three major religons there all to focus on the literal
(13:58:19) Cabur_Senaar: and re-enact their myths subconsiously.
(13:58:33) steamboat28: One would argue that even if one takes myth literally, that is never the only appropriate interpretation. We use myth because it is the ultimate allegory, metaphorically able to speak to nearly any situation we could devise.
(13:58:39) ron1944: wait, i dont understand what am i need to do?
(13:58:55) steamboat28: Not that I think mythic literalism is the best course of action, but I am playing devil's advocate for literalists.
(13:59:02) Cabur_Senaar: I'll shoot you a PM after this, Ron. DOn't worry.
(13:59:16) ron1944: ok
(13:59:17) Cabur_Senaar: No, taking myths literally is a terrible idea.
(13:59:18) ron1944: tnx
(13:59:25) Tibarus: But what of they were never told would we be doing anything different
(13:59:42) steamboat28: That's subjective, Cabur.
(13:59:50) JS: Taking myhs literally brings us to where the world is now does it not ?
(13:59:56) steamboat28: and fully dependent on the end result.
(14:00:00) MartaLina: that is an excellent idea Tibarus , what do you think would happen?
(14:00:03) Cabur_Senaar: A steam brought up earlier, most of the religious rituals we grew up with were myths being re-enacted.
(14:00:10) JS: Sorry for the spelling guys, on my phone
(14:00:18) Proteus: I'm inclined to say "it depends", but I don't know for sure if it really depends.
(14:00:36) Proteus: Can anyone think of an example of a myth taken literally that has done good?
(14:00:39) Cabur_Senaar: I'm just going back to Campbell.
(14:00:43) Snowy_Aftermath: if we get trapped in the story we miss the message. you lose your flexibility to new ideas.
(14:00:57) Cabur_Senaar: I would agree.
(14:01:17) MartaLina: Tibarus had a good question about what we would do without myths , what would be differnt
(14:01:36) Cabur_Senaar: But here is the thing. A myth taken on consciously, knowing is a very different affair than a myth acted out subconsciously.
(14:01:40) Tibarus: Well I think wed be completly lost with out them
(14:01:52) JS: The way we react to one another, solve situations, no Jediism ?
(14:02:08) Proteus: were myths inevitable to our existence due to our nature?
(14:02:12) Cabur_Senaar: I would agree. Why, Tibarus? WHat is the purpose of the myth?
(14:02:14) Snowy_Aftermath: okay, a myth taken literally that has done good, I'd say the story of Thomas Edison making 100 lightbulbs before one worked... the point is to try over and over but people take it literally. either way it has inspired great determination.
(14:02:40) MartaLina: i see where you are going Cabur in our upbringing we get imprinted with myths that influence our actions
(14:02:47) Cabur_Senaar: That isn't really a myth in the sense that Campbell uses the term.
(14:03:10) Cabur_Senaar: What is the role of myth?
(14:03:29) Snowy_Aftermath: isn't it? oh. :?
(14:03:39) JS: To show us how to live our lives accordingly maybe ?
(14:03:50) Cabur_Senaar: Certainly, that is part of it.
(14:04:14) Cabur_Senaar: Myths are teaching stories.
(14:04:26) JS: To learn from our ancestors ? Like how not to make the same mistskes ?
(14:04:41) Cabur_Senaar: Cautionary tales, sometimes.
(14:05:27) Proteus: a very wonderful answer in A Hero of a Thousand Faces, which I highly recommend. :)
(14:05:38) Cabur_Senaar: Yes.
(14:05:48) Cabur_Senaar: These are stories about us.
(14:06:06) Cabur_Senaar: Told in the language of that time, using context from a specific time and place.
(14:06:21) Cabur_Senaar: But they are about us.
(14:06:38) Cabur_Senaar: Tibarus says we would be lost without them.
(14:06:40) Temple Bot: ron1944 has left the channel.
(14:06:56) Cabur_Senaar: If so, why?
(14:06:56) Tibarus: I'm trying to elaberate but om lost on thought I'm sorry
(14:07:09) Cabur_Senaar: It's okay. t's a big topic.
(14:07:17) Tibarus: Do you think we need history?
(14:07:21) Proteus: They depict concepts about our nature that cannot be explained strait with words, things concerning the practically unknowable for example.
(14:07:33) Cabur_Senaar: I agree.
(14:07:48) JS: Because we would be lost without it ? Like a child growing up without parents maybe ?
(14:08:04) Proteus: Much of what Campbell teaches comes from Jung's teachings about dreams.
(14:08:27) Cabur_Senaar: Because Jung reached back into the old stories first.
(14:08:34) Tibarus: As campbell said he grew knowi ng there was a father always looking out for him now take that away how would he have been less courgeous to do what he has done
(14:08:36) MartaLina: yes Js a child without an example
(14:08:42) Cabur_Senaar: That is an excellent point, JS.
(14:10:07) MartaLina: wb Ron :)
(14:10:10) Cabur_Senaar: So, one goes to a christian mass, takes part in communion.
(14:10:16) Proteus: The thing is, we "experience"... and so "experience" is the ACTUAL language in which we as people really speak. This is why stories are such an integral part of our evolution. Stories are communication through the nature of experience, and that is what connects us with them.
(14:10:44) Cabur_Senaar: Yes. Show, don't tell is a huge part of how we learn.
(14:10:45) Proteus: When it comes to the mythical, myth is what discusses, through experience, things beyond what we can understand outright.
(14:11:04) Aqua: Good evening :)
(14:11:07) Cabur_Senaar: Stories are how we communicate experience.
(14:11:13) Cabur_Senaar: But, back to mass.
(14:11:22) Tibarus: Myth bring morals which allow humans to be more biased about right and wrong they teach us life anothers experiences lived out on a tale we all can learn from
(14:11:25) Cabur_Senaar: You take communion.
(14:11:56) Cabur_Senaar: You are participating in the last supper.
(14:12:05) Cabur_Senaar: metaphorically.
(14:12:11) Cabur_Senaar: but there is action there.
(14:12:52) Cabur_Senaar: If you were a member of a specific Australian Aboriginal tribe, you would loose a tooth as part of a rite of passage.
(14:13:16) Cabur_Senaar: It leaves a mark. Not just on the mouth, but on the person.
(14:13:33) Cabur_Senaar: but this is consciously undertaken.
(14:13:49) Tibarus: A coming of age the dying of the infant to young adult
(14:14:03) Cabur_Senaar: And in the absence of ritual?
(14:14:12) ron1944: i dont know what to do after register, can someone help me please?
(14:14:43) Cabur_Senaar: ANyone able to help Ron right now?
(14:15:00) Reliah: Yep
(14:15:06) ron1944: tnx
(14:15:11) Cabur_Senaar: You're my hero, Relaih.
(14:15:48) Cabur_Senaar: Anyway, back to myth.
(14:16:01) Cabur_Senaar: Does anyone have any questions?
(14:16:23) ron1944: ok tnx
(14:16:31) Tibarus: Do myths appear I'm everyday life?
(14:16:43) Cabur_Senaar: How do you mean?
(14:17:01) ron1944: ok
(14:17:24) JS: More of a stuoid question but I do. I'm finding it hard to understand what campbel is trying to say in part 2, is there maybe something I can do, maybe read to help me understand more ?
(14:18:04) Aqua: Myth do not appear in everyday life I guess. Myth are created with examples of everyday life! We tell them in life, but not living in a myth.
(14:18:05) Aqua: ;)
(14:18:11) Cabur_Senaar: I would need a more specific question. Tell me what you remember from part 2.
(14:18:17) Proteus: Many IP journals by other members have wonderful explainations of each part of the Campbell's content.
(14:18:31) Tibarus: Well during your day how mant times has a myth influenced your choices is it subconsciously taking effect
(14:18:36) Proteus: I would definitely recommend taking a look at theirs, JS
(14:18:54) Cabur_Senaar: Well, if it is subconscious, you wouldn't know.
(14:19:09) Cabur_Senaar: But it is more than just your choices.
(14:19:23) MartaLina: i uses to read a lot of journals just to get a clue as to what i was to do :-)
(14:19:37) JS: Will do Proteus thank you. I will have to listen to it again to tell more Cabur_Senaar I have'nt listened to it in quite some time
(14:19:39) ron1944: i register today, can i complete the Membership Application?
(14:19:51) Cabur_Senaar: Consider that many cultures have a "kicked out of paradise" story.
(14:20:02) Proteus: The cycle of the hero's journey happens in everyday life, both on the local time scale, and on a macro-time scale as well.
(14:20:04) JS: Nope sory ron, you have to wait 7 days
(14:20:14) Tibarus: Do you think children of today have less of a connection to myths
(14:20:22) Cabur_Senaar: How many cities in human history might then be our subconcious attempt to retake the arden of Edan?
(14:20:30) Temple Bot: jennigthfall has joined the chat.
(14:20:40) Cabur_Senaar: I think children are connected to different myths.
(14:20:44) jennigthfall: just jumping into the chat and see who is on.
(14:20:57) MartaLina: hi jenni , we are discussing Myth lessons from IP
(14:21:03) jennigthfall: cool
(14:21:10) Tibarus: Such as?
(14:21:11) Proteus: I think children have probably an even deeper connection to myth than adults do
(14:21:24) ron1944: haaa i understand how it works :)
(14:21:28) Proteus: because they are less "carved" from social conditioning than we are
(14:21:28) MartaLina: so if you have questions hop in Jenni :)
(14:21:28) JS: You lost me Cabur_Senaar hahaha sorry
(14:21:31) jennigthfall: well children are much more opened minded then adults
(14:21:32) Cabur_Senaar: Well, easy example, Star Wars.
(14:22:03) Cabur_Senaar: Star Wars is just a myth, a story that uses metaphors and tells us about conflict.
(14:22:23) JS: You might want to read the FAQ ron, most of your answers will be answered, if you have an unanswered question you can always contact me
(14:22:30) Cabur_Senaar: Instead of being told around campfires, we go to the cinema.
(14:22:52) Cabur_Senaar: JS, about the Garden of Edan thing?
(14:23:00) JS: The myths evolve with technology so to say.
(14:23:08) JS: Thats the one Cabur_Senaar
(14:23:08) Tibarus: I feel like childreb of today have to maby distractions
(14:23:12) Proteus: videogames can also be a very interactive form of mythtelling... for example, Skyrim
(14:23:35) Tibarus: Ah I didn't think of it like that
(14:23:35) Cabur_Senaar: The language in which a myth is told must match the culture to which it speaks.
(14:23:37) JS: Epic game ! ;)
(14:23:42) Tibarus: That mKes sense
(14:23:48) jennigthfall: assassin creed follows off of apple of eden
(14:23:53) Proteus: which has a very integrated connection between being shown the story, and experiencing it for yourself
(14:24:25) jennigthfall: alright, i have to go . i'm in class right now, should be back in 2 hours hopefully :P cya
(14:24:52) Cabur_Senaar: But, to be fair, you have seen the WWJD bracelets?
(14:24:58) JS: Ok, but what would the language be ? Or is it dependant on he myth ?
(14:25:06) Tibarus: Well I enjoyed the disccusion and can't wait to take place in an other I must take my leave
(14:25:08) Cabur_Senaar: A better question.
(14:25:20) MartaLina: the what would Jestor do bracelets , cool where can i get them
(14:25:29) Cabur_Senaar: If you are speaking to, say, 21st century Americans
(14:25:47) JS: Nope, what is it ? Hahaha i was about to ask what does it stand for
(14:26:00) MartaLina: What would Jesus do
(14:26:03) Cabur_Senaar: You myth will describe issues that we face, using symbols familiar to us, in the various languages we speak.
(14:26:17) Cabur_Senaar: Right, the bracelts.
(14:26:46) Cabur_Senaar: WHat are they, but a cue for the individual to refer back to their own myths and seek guidance for choices.
(14:27:38) JS: I see, in this case the bible is their myth storyteller ?
(14:27:52) Cabur_Senaar: the collection of myths, yes.
(14:28:27) Cabur_Senaar: Now, here, take notice.
(14:28:38) JS: Their ancestor's stories to use as guidence, on how to live, how to react, why they (we) are here
(14:28:48) Cabur_Senaar: When I say myth, I am not saying the stories are not true.
(14:28:59) Cabur_Senaar: Every myth is true.
(14:29:09) JS: Understood
(14:29:28) Cabur_Senaar: True in the sense that they are acurate, if metaphorical, descriptions of us.
(14:29:45) Cabur_Senaar: What we are like, and what is expected of us, culture to culture.
(14:30:38) JS: So I can say for example: we are humans, our existance is true (we do exist so hats why I say ot is true)
(14:31:03) Cabur_Senaar: And this story or that tells me something true about our nature.
(14:33:02) JS: Yes,so because humans created the myths, the myths are true ?
(14:33:16) Cabur_Senaar: Because they tell us about ourselves, yes.
(14:33:42) Cabur_Senaar: Or it wouldn't really be a myth.
(14:33:58) Cabur_Senaar: Just a bad story no one liked.
(14:34:03) Cabur_Senaar: ;)
(14:34:05) JS: I understand :) i thinkthe light just came on :)
(14:34:15) MartaLina: :-)
(14:34:16) Cabur_Senaar: Excellent
(14:34:48) Cabur_Senaar: Okay, we have done an hour. Any final questions?
(14:35:37) JS: I think I mzy have
(14:35:53) JS: But its more of a question on opinion
(14:36:15) Cabur_Senaar: Hit me.
(14:37:00) Cabur_Senaar: Answers from all corners, if you please.
(14:38:25) JS: What I noticed in the first part of part 2, it would seem that he stories from alot of religions are "the same", different names, different places, different gods. But the backbone of how we came to exist (according to how I understand them) is the same. Would you guys agree ?
(14:39:12) Snowy_Aftermath: There's a lot of variation on the theme, I think, but yes.
(14:39:16) Cabur_Senaar: That is certainly what Campbell says.
(14:39:17) MartaLina: i would agree , the core of the stories is we came to be out of someone or something
(14:39:34) Cabur_Senaar: Because all the stories refer back to the same organism.
(14:39:58) JS: And in all stories that organism just has a diffrent name ?
(14:40:01) Cabur_Senaar: Different symbols, different views on what a hero is, but a lot of similarity.
(14:40:17) Cabur_Senaar: That organism is human beings.
(14:40:21) JS: So I am safe to say something about that in my journal ?
(14:40:42) Cabur_Senaar: You are safe to say virtually anything in your journals, but yes.
(14:40:51) Cabur_Senaar: One proviso.
(14:41:07) JS: Hahaha just making sure thank you :)
(14:41:20) Cabur_Senaar: Just because you understand the monomyth as a concept does not mean you suddenly understand all myths.
(14:41:45) Cabur_Senaar: Those variations are powerful and important.
(14:41:52) Snowy_Aftermath: that's true. it's taking me forever to get my head around hinduism, hehe.
(14:42:10) Cabur_Senaar: And much is to be learned from those details that do not conform to the monomyth.
(14:42:10) JS: No ofcourse, I don't think anyone will ever understand all myths
(14:42:40) Cabur_Senaar: You would be shocked at hom many lazy students use Campbell to justify all manner of shortcuts.
(14:43:22) Proteus: There are many aspects of myth that can get very very complicated.
(14:43:30) JS: Shortcuts such as ?
(14:43:43) Snowy_Aftermath: why would you be here if you were going to be lazy? 8o
(14:43:56) Cabur_Senaar: Simply believe that because the myths make similar reference, they are interchangable.
(14:44:09) JS: Yeah then you should know Jediism is not for you hahaha
(14:44:21) Cabur_Senaar: All of us are guilty of some level of sloth.
(14:44:50) Cabur_Senaar: But the myths are no more interchangable than people are.
(14:45:16) Cabur_Senaar: two workers may do the same job, but they are different still.
(14:45:35) Snowy_Aftermath: but if the point Campbell is making is that they're all pointing at the same thing, you can kind of see their point... right?
(14:45:56) JS: So even though the main story is the same, all the myths of that story actually teaches us something diffrent from it ?
(14:45:57) Snowy_Aftermath: idk
(14:46:00) Cabur_Senaar: It is not a black and white issue.
(14:46:30) Proteus: a lot of it is a matter of symbology
(14:46:41) Cabur_Senaar: Similar, but always specific to a time and place.
(14:46:43) Edan: Cultures are all very slightly different.. the myths that they create reflect what is important to them.. it is why myths cannot be directly interchanged
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(14:47:24) JS: Due to what they believe is important ?
(14:47:29) Proteus: *symbolism
(14:47:31) Cabur_Senaar: And while Campbell never taught this, to my knowledge, it does get tossed around.
(14:48:13) Cabur_Senaar: So, seeing the commonalities does not mean that you stop reading.
(14:48:23) Proteus: The thing is, a myth is usually meant to be timeless.
(14:48:38) Proteus: Meaning, it is meant to be relevant regardless of era, in one way or another.
(14:48:40) Edan: Well.. timeless for culture in question
(14:49:01) MartaLina: thats why we should not live them literally
(14:49:07) Cabur_Senaar: We all think we are timeless.
(14:49:21) Cabur_Senaar: Because they exist in ritual time.
(14:49:35) Cabur_Senaar: The stories exist outside of regular time.
(14:49:38) Proteus: Since it is rooted in the general human experience itself, it should span, in some way, cultures and eras.
(14:49:44) Proteus: It's simply a matter of format.
(14:49:50) Cabur_Senaar: And, to a degree, they do.
(14:50:07) JS: How so Cabur_Senaar ?
(14:50:26) Cabur_Senaar: But a story where the people look like you, talk like you, struggle with recognizable enemies, will always grab you more.
(14:51:04) Cabur_Senaar: It's why this is a Temple for Jedi rather than a Temple to Gilgamesh.
(14:51:07) Proteus: right. a good example of format :)
(14:52:29) JS: So some myths are written (recorded) in a way to suit their culture more ?
(14:52:48) Cabur_Senaar: They rise from the central questions of the culture.
(14:52:52) Proteus: They are written in a way that is most recognizable to that culture and era.
(14:52:52) JS: And also for their decendants to understand ?
(14:53:07) Cabur_Senaar: It's not a chicken or egg.
(14:53:14) Cabur_Senaar: They create each other.
(14:53:44) Cabur_Senaar: BUt that is also an important point.
(14:54:07) JS: So you can say the culture and the myths are dependant on one another ?
(14:54:18) Cabur_Senaar: 5000 years ago, there was not such a drastic difference in lifestyle one generation to the next.
(14:56:29) Cabur_Senaar: If you lived in ancient Babylon, a five hundred year old story might feel utterly contemporary.
(14:58:42) Edan: (whispers) From here it looked liked JS' comments had been deleted :help:
(14:58:50) JS: So it would have a greater meaning to you because the conditions were about the same ?
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(14:59:17) jennigthfall: back for a little bit
(14:59:25) Cabur_Senaar: It would be more recognizable.
(14:59:34) Cabur_Senaar: You would have an easier time seeing yourslef.
(15:00:25) JS: So as time goes on (lifestyles change), myths become harder to understand ?
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(15:00:37) jennigthfall: brb
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(15:00:41) Cabur_Senaar: Perhaps.
(15:01:03) Cabur_Senaar: Some symbols become less relevant.
(15:02:01) JS: Aahhh ok
(15:02:13) Cabur_Senaar: Again, consider that you are ina Temple of Jedi.
(15:02:26) Cabur_Senaar: That is the myth that spoke to us more than any of the others.
(15:02:27) JS: Ok
(15:02:51) Cabur_Senaar: We connected with that one.
(15:03:11) Cabur_Senaar: But, perhaps it could have another story in another place and time.
(15:03:15) JS: Wait hahaha sorry I am lost agaim, what myth are yoy referring to ?
(15:03:24) Cabur_Senaar: And it will be another story down the line.
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(15:03:48) Cabur_Senaar: The Jedi as heroic archetype.
(15:03:59) Cabur_Senaar: The story of good and evil.
(15:04:06) Cabur_Senaar: The tales of redemption.
(15:04:12) JS: Aah ok ok
(15:04:14) Cabur_Senaar: There are millions of each of those.
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(15:04:35) Cabur_Senaar: For better or worse, we were drawn to these.
(15:05:11) JS: And they are more relevant to us than let's say the myths of ancient mayan gods ?
(15:05:21) ron1944: how does the jedi see anther religions and god?
(15:05:35) Cabur_Senaar: I suppose it is up to that Jedi.
(15:05:46) Proteus: I wouldn't say more relevant, just more recognizable to our time.
(15:05:53) Cabur_Senaar: Certainly, we seem to have found them more relatable.
(15:05:58) ron1944: cool so i can be an ataist jedi right?
(15:06:09) Cabur_Senaar: Atheist?
(15:06:12) Cabur_Senaar: Sure.
(15:06:16) JS: You can ron :D
(15:06:18) Cabur_Senaar: There are many.
(15:06:21) Cabur_Senaar: I am one.
(15:06:36) ron1944: yes tnx for fixing me
(15:07:12) Cabur_Senaar: Alright, any final thoughts?
(15:07:18) Proteus: Jediism is orthopraxic (right behavior), not orthodoxic (right belief), so one can believe what they wish along side the Jedi path.
(15:07:23) Snowy_Aftermath points to self
(15:08:37) JS: No I am good for now Cabur_Senaar thank you all VERY VERY VERY much for the help
(15:08:47) Forceful_Jedi1: How many people have joined totjo?
(15:09:02) Snowy_Aftermath: ever?
(15:09:09) Kit: active members or just anyone who's signed up?
(15:09:16) JS: Cabur_Senaar do you mind if I send you a PM if I have more questions at a later stage ?
(15:09:31) Cabur_Senaar: No, by all means. I am please to be halpful
(15:09:35) Snowy_Aftermath: probably a lot. it only matters who stayed and got better because of it, imo :)
(15:09:38) Forceful_Jedi1: Anyone
(15:09:40) Cabur_Senaar: Like a zillion people ahve joined.
(15:10:17) JS: Hahaha it feels like a zillion hahaha
(15:10:19) Cabur_Senaar: Active? less than 100, I think. Not sure.
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(15:11:41) JS: Ok guys I am heading out. Thank you all very much for your help
(15:11:52) Snowy_Aftermath: bye JS :)
(15:11:53) Cabur_Senaar: Me too. Take good care.
(15:12:00) JS: May the Force be with you all :)
(15:12:04) Cabur_Senaar: And thanks everybody for coming.
(15:12:06) Proteus: Thank you Cabur for the gracious hosting :)
(15:12:23) Cabur_Senaar: I'm glad you brought up orthopraxy.
(15:12:41) Cabur_Senaar: That deserves its own discussion.
(15:13:00) Proteus: yes, there's plenty to be said
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