What is spiritual welfare according to the pastor explanation?

It should be a healer of the faith, someone who helps you make sense of things when beliefs and life seem to clash.

Alexandre Orion wrote: There are lots of questions that we don't get around to exploring very often. I don't know why ; I could only guess that it is because, as contemporary humans of the post-modern age, we feel intimidated by questions that do not have clear answers. Or, perhaps we are simply bored by them.

But, boredom being a form of melancholy, that seems to take us right back to the previous topic !

If your guess is right, that it is trough modernization that people want to know less and less about spirituality.. This would I see as materialism which can lead to suffer and sadness..
If people are truly bored of spirituality, or as you say might be scared / intimidated, something or someone has caused it.. action and reaction, cause and effect. The more I think of this question the more I understand how little I know. Makes me happy to discover somehow

People don't want to care about spirituality because they feel they do not have the time for this. Modernization is not the cause, I think this is the way powerful guys with bad intentions meant the whole circus to be...
(yes I know that last sentence sounds waaaayy too conspirationist but hey, this is my feeling about this. Just wanted to emphasize on the fact that still, I'm not blindingly following conspiracy theories you can find on the web. Just to be clear about that etc.)

Many people feel like they need to work all day to make money and avoid at all cost the "Oh my god I'm a burden on society", this generates stress (killing people with stress). What does stress do ? It brings fatigue, irritable mind, closed mind, when you are these things what do you do ? you get home, you watch TV, you sleep, done.

This is the worst scenario, yet this is what happens in 2014 all over the world. You might notice that people in fact DO have time to care about their inner self, because they spend it watching TV too much etc...

This is how I did to break these chains :

1 - I kept asking myself lots of questions about WHY I wasn't happy instead of just being NOT happy : "OK this is making me unhappy ? does it make others unhappy ? is this the "okay" way of reacting to it ? what would it take me to fix this ?"
2 - This lead to answers after a chunk of time, then you ACT : "I shall stop being pissed off by things that are of no importance, I shall open myself to others in a bright way at least just to see if I feel better after that (and yes you DO feel better) etc..."
3 - You keep on this good stuff, instead of "relaxing" in front of the TV (yeah the TV isn't so much of a bad guy some times but... easy target... sorry.) you relax by spiritual work, search on the net while you are alone, learn from others...

The thing that is important to note about all that, is that most people will NOT make any MOVE untill they are forced to.
"Il faut connaître le goût du vinaigre pour apprécier le miel"
"Without the vinegar, honey is not honey"
I think this is the truth, you may not think that way.

If your guess is right, that it is trough modernization that people want to know less and less about spirituality..

Hmm, I dont think so.

Really, we live in a very informative age, and spirituality has not evolved with it as everything else.

Most fundamental religions are extremely archaic and outdated but extremely common, and many still believe the world is only 6,000 years old.

People do not want to know less, they actually want to know more, there simply not as readily gullible, and no one is burning them at the stake for not thinking the earth is the center of the universe.

This also extends to less strict spiritual practices as well.

People want to know more, but simply arent going to take fortune cookie, or cop out answers.

Seriously, I think about how much value I(or anyone) should be placing in texts from people who simply would not even understand what most learn as basic education in grade school today.

If you took a smart phone back in time, well, it wouldnt work as a phone with no signal, but even with just the basic computing information(likea calculator app, or flashlight app) you would start a spiritual revolution about the traveler who brought the knowledge with ran on "energy" ,etc, etc.

Any book therein, if it could be translated, would probably become holy text.

Or, you would be killed in an instant.

Still, my point is not that spirituality is dead, boring, etc, but that people are looking deeper into the answers they are getting and finding them wanting. Especially with some the of answers one can receive in there search.

Skepticism, was at one time a very serious offense.

A guide will try to help you find your answers if they can, and if they cant, will be honest enough to say so, or that they dont know ,and will search for someone who possibly can.

Not all who wander are lost...

Khaos wrote:

If your guess is right, that it is trough modernization that people want to know less and less about spirituality..

Hmm, I dont think so.

Really, we live in a very informative age, and spirituality has not evolved with it as everything else.

Most fundamental religions are extremely archaic and outdated but extremely common, and many still believe the world is only 6,000 years old.

People do not want to know less, they actually want to know more, there simply not as readily gullible, and no one is burning them at the stake for not thinking the earth is the center of the universe.

This also extends to less strict spiritual practices as well.

People want to know more, but simply arent going to take fortune cookie, or cop out answers.

Seriously, I think about how much value I(or anyone) should be placing in texts from people who simply would not even understand what most learn as basic education in grade school today.

If you took a smart phone back in time, well, it wouldnt work as a phone with no signal, but even with just the basic computing information(likea calculator app, or flashlight app) you would start a spiritual revolution about the traveler who brought the knowledge with ran on "energy" ,etc, etc.

Any book therein, if it could be translated, would probably become holy text.

Or, you would be killed in an instant.

Still, my point is not that spirituality is dead, boring, etc, but that people are looking deeper into the answers they are getting and finding them wanting. Especially with some the of answers one can receive in there search.

Skepticism, was at one time a very serious offense.

A guide will try to help you find your answers if they can, and if they cant, will be honest enough to say so, or that they dont know ,and will search for someone who possibly can.

Not all who wander are lost...

First of all, I can understand your meaning that spirituality has not evolved, because it does not evolve it does not fit with the culture of today, so less people will be spiritual. If you tell that spirituality does not evolve, how can it fit within society? :laugh: Still I do not know what I should believe, does spirituality evolve the same as civilization?

Secondly I want to tell you a short myth, this is an Native American story I hope I tell it right because I heard it long ago.. :S

Ones there was a man, walking trough the field, the man was looking for food. The man saw an Jaguar, the man ask the Jaguar:,, Mighty Jaguar, can I have your strength?'' The Jaguar told the man that he can have his strength.
The man continued his journey through a forest. Here he meets a snake, he asks the snake:,, Can I have your smartness?'' The snake told the man that he can have his smartness. After walking trough the forest the man spots an deer, And he asks the deer if he could have his swiftness. The deer accept and the man could walk as fast as the deer.

The man runs trough the forest and at the near end he spots an owl. The man asks the owl if he could have all the wisdom of the earth, the owl asks the man if he really want that power. The man tells the owl that he would like to have the knowledge of the earth, the owl agreed. Finally the man gets to the other side of the forest, but it is not a surprise anymore, because he already knew. He did not want the knowledge any more, but the owl was gone. And the man would live his live lonely and sad.

RyuJin wrote: Spiritual welfare is not the same as psychological welfare, but may influence it...to my immediate knowledge we don't have any psychiatrists or psychologists here (I may be wrong)...we do have numerous members that work in healthcare...if a member needs something we do not have here we do come together to help find what it is that is needed...

I dont think we have any registered psychologists, but we do have some qualified counselors and quite a few who have completed their studies or are in the process of studying psychology.

And yes, I believe there is an influence of one on the other.

Alexandre Orion wrote: Well then ...

I'm sort of glad you've brought this up ... We really don't get to talk about it very often.

I bring it up all the time. Though its been a while since I asked it in forum I guess.

econdly I want to tell you a short myth, this is an Native American story I hope I tell it right because I heard it long ago.. :S

Ones there was a man, walking trough the field, the man was looking for food. The man saw an Jaguar, the man ask the Jaguar:,, Mighty Jaguar, can I have your strength?'' The Jaguar told the man that he can have his strength.
The man continued his journey through a forest. Here he meets a snake, he asks the snake:,, Can I have your smartness?'' The snake told the man that he can have his smartness. After walking trough the forest the man spots an deer, And he asks the deer if he could have his swiftness. The deer accept and the man could walk as fast as the deer.

The man runs trough the forest and at the near end he spots an owl. The man asks the owl if he could have all the wisdom of the earth, the owl asks the man if he really want that power. The man tells the owl that he would like to have the knowledge of the earth, the owl agreed. Finally the man gets to the other side of the forest, but it is not a surprise anymore, because he already knew. He did not want the knowledge any more, but the owl was gone. And the man would live his live lonely and sad.

Actually, this was what I was talking about.

Especially if you dont know if you are getting it right in the first place.

It is lost on me completely in any case.

No one knows all the knowledge of the earth, and knowing something has never removed the suprise for me.

I am also not sure why he is lonely...

Its suffice to say I dont get it, so you will have to clarify what your trying to communicate to me.

People want to know more, sometimes it is better to know something not. I shall explain the riddle of this myth for you The reason he is lonely is because he wants more, mental materialism. The surprise was gone, knowing to much can remove the meaning of live. The the myth is to understand why we know things, en why we do not know things. Again full of live questions This myth points to one of the three temptations.

• economic temptation
• political temptation
• spiritual temptation

The hole point of the small story is: Do we need to know what spiritual welfare is? Do we need knowledge that is maybe not for us to know? This in order to come back to the thread point, I admit that I this was a bit puzzling to understand this myth :side: