Meetings Log

[15:04:26] Bruno: ok guys. let's start
[15:04:48] Bruno: how is present please
[15:04:55] Rosalyn Johnson: Rosalyn J
[15:04:56] Phortis Nespin: Phortis
[15:05:00] Rick (Atticus) Laws: Atticus
[15:05:03] Mitchell W.: Steamboat28
[15:05:08] Carlos Mar: Carlos CArlos.martinez3 here
[15:05:11] Bart: Bart
[15:05:25] Leah Chisholm: Leah Starspectre
[15:05:35] Joshua Wirth: Alfuria
[15:06:04] Bruno: ok
[15:06:14] Bruno: Kyber present
[15:06:26] Bruno: we have some topics today
[15:07:13] Bruno: Everyone knows that Cabur and Darren resigneted them offices
[15:07:20] Alexandre Orion: présent
[15:07:31] Bruno: so we have two free slots
[15:07:45] Bruno: Pastor and Assistent of Pastor
[15:08:29 | Editado 15:08:41] Bruno: The point is: Who will fill these positions?
[15:09:06] Bruno: Please Alexandre
[15:09:31] Alexandre Orion: On this topic of "open positions"
[15:09:53] Alexandre Orion: please keep in mind that I'm not speaking as former Pastor nor as Councillor -- just as Alexandre
[15:10:33] Alexandre Orion: Honestly, we ought not try to be too democratic about this -- if there is anyone who deserves to be nominated Pastor, that would be Ros
[15:10:51] Phortis Nespin: Seconded
[15:10:55] Alexandre Orion: then the other positions of the Synod could be filled in with those who are interested
[15:11:10] V: (Hello - observing from afar Unfortunately not home so unable to fully participate)
[15:11:29] D. Alex Bird: Cabur present
[15:12:25] Alexandre Orion: Ros has unswervingly filled the roles of Secretary to the Clergy and Assistant Pastor for the Seminary -- my feeling is that she is 'next in line' so to speak, and that we ought to - as the Clergy general assembly - ask the Council to appoint her to the position
[15:12:37] Alexandre Orion: (Hello, Alex )
[15:12:52] Alexandre Orion: ***
[15:13:04] D. Alex Bird: Getting on my laptop. One sec.
[15:13:14] Bruno: Ok. Now pls Carlos
[15:13:49] Carlos Mar: is ther any one curently willing to fill the seats? seat?
[15:14:28] Bruno: Pastor seats?
[15:14:43] Carlos Mar: both pastor and assistant /?
[15:15:11] Bruno: If anyone want fell this seats pls
[15:15:33] Mitchell W.: (I must leave soon)
[15:16:18] Bruno: well, Just you Carlos and Ros
[15:16:37] Bruno: Can we Mitchell with the word, pls Carlos?
[15:16:54] Carlos Mar: then if its serving may i serve the nominated?
[15:17:36 | Editado 15:18:54] Bruno: Just let he talk first, than we back with you
[15:19:01] Mitchell W.: I don't believe we should start a tradition of having a "line", but we should nominate at least a temporary seat-filler for both positions to leave leadership intact.

This meeting should nominate someone for each position to serve, either officially or temporarily, before this meeting is considered over.

I'm also not qualified for much, but I'll help in any way I can. Just tell me what to do to make these transitions easier and I'll help.
[15:19:52] Mitchell W.: Have a great meeting!
[15:20:26] Bruno: Thanks brother
[15:20:39] Rosalyn Johnson: thanks Mitchell
[15:20:42] Bruno: have a good day
[15:20:58] Bruno: Now, Carlos. Are you done?
[15:21:14] Carlos Mar: yes sir thank u
[15:21:35] Bruno: Now, pls Leah
[15:23:27] Leah Chisholm: Ok, this is slightly tangential, but I think that we need to address the dwindling numbers. We need to think of ways to get more people into the clergy.

Also, I agree with the proposed nominations.
[15:24:27] Bruno: Yep. Your question fir perfect in the next topic Leah
[15:24:47] Bruno: We back it when we arrive there. Just remember me pls
[15:24:52] Leah Chisholm: I have ideas about that when we're ready
[15:24:53] Bruno:
[15:25:00] Bruno: Great
[15:25:12] Bruno: May I pass the word?
[15:25:22] Leah Chisholm: Yes
[15:25:28] Bruno: Phortis PLs
[15:25:31] Phortis Nespin: As I am part of a government service in which leadership is a must, I believe that secession planning plays an important part of an organization. In the case of this Clergy, I believe that Alexandre is correct in placing Ros as our new Pastor. Having someone who has come up through the ranks and knows what is expected from the positions below the one they are filling is vital to the success of the organization.
[15:26:43] Alexandre Orion:
[15:26:53] Leah Chisholm: Here here
[15:26:59] Phortis Nespin: Ros has shown exemplary skills and knowledge
[15:27:25] Bruno: Thanks Phortis
[15:27:35] Phortis Nespin: your welcome
[15:27:56] Bruno: Now, pls Cabur
[15:28:14] D. Alex Bird: Thank you, Bruno. Good afternoon, everyone.
[15:29:10] D. Alex Bird: The office of the Pastor is, all on its own, a tremendous responsibility. It aslo brings with it a seat on the Council, another tremendous task.
[15:29:39] D. Alex Bird: It is not for those who are uncommitted, nor for those without the necessary training and experience.
[15:30:09] D. Alex Bird: The Synod will need new blood, and will benefit from it. There will be two spots open, regardless.
[15:30:34] D. Alex Bird: But the Pastorship is a huge responsibility, and it is not an entry-level position.
[15:31:23] D. Alex Bird: We will require people to fill posts, and I welcome anyone willing and able to put the time and effort in.
[15:31:58] D. Alex Bird: Those of you who have stepped forward will be considered.
[15:33:39] D. Alex Bird: I think Steam's point is well-taken, however. Until A new Pastor is chosen, I would like to post Rosalyn J as temporary Pastor until such time as we can go through the necessary motions to fill posts officially.
[15:33:58] D. Alex Bird: This does not mean that she is automatically succeeding me.
[15:34:40] D. Alex Bird: It does mean that there will be continuity of service by the Synod until all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed.
[15:34:44] D. Alex Bird: Any objections?
[15:34:57] Carlos Mar: none here
[15:35:00] Leah Chisholm: Not from me
[15:35:07] Rick (Atticus) Laws: None.
[15:35:17] Bruno: no
[15:35:17] Bart: No objection
[15:35:39] V: No
[15:36:16] D. Alex Bird: I will make the necessary arrangements with the Council, then.
[15:37:13] D. Alex Bird: Anyone interested in serving should make themselves familiar with the responsibilities of the various roles. It may the that current members of the Synod want to shift responsibilities.
[15:37:35] Carlos Mar: i would love to assist the pastor
[15:37:59] D. Alex Bird: I certainly expect everyone to assist the Pastor, but I take your meaning.
[15:38:00] Phortis Nespin: Has anyone expressed interest in the Pastorship?
[15:38:08] Bruno: Pls guys, just respect the line
[15:38:17] Bruno: we have more people to talk
[15:38:22] D. Alex Bird: Yes, but those nominations are kept private.
[15:38:33] Bruno: than we end decide it
[15:38:36] D. Alex Bird: Anyone interested I the post can contact me directly.
[15:38:51] D. Alex Bird: I'm all done.
[15:38:59] Bruno: Thanks Brother
[15:39:09] Bruno: Rick, Are you want talk?
[15:39:16] Rick (Atticus) Laws: Thank you, Bruno.
[15:39:52] Rick (Atticus) Laws: Phortis and Cabur covered one of the big points I had: about the pastorship requiring some qualifications beyond just willingness to serve in the role.
[15:40:06] Rick (Atticus) Laws: And I do hope Ros will accept, at least on an interim basis.
[15:40:23] Rick (Atticus) Laws: But the new thing I have is that if we are unable to fill all the slots immediately,
[15:40:40] Rick (Atticus) Laws: I hope we keep the responsibility of the seminary in mind.
[15:40:58] Rick (Atticus) Laws: It may not be the most active piece of the cclergy work
[15:41:11] Alexandre Orion: Seminary will be covered ... it is also "Education"
[15:41:15] Rick (Atticus) Laws: But it's important, especially when we move on to talking about recruitment and retention.
[15:41:28] Alexandre Orion: if necessary I'll oversee that myself until a replacement can be found
[15:41:49] Bruno: Pls, Guys respect the line
[15:41:59] Rick (Atticus) Laws: Thank you Maitre. That's all I wanted to say, if Ros is gonna bump-up, someone needs to step into her current role soonish.
[15:42:11] Rick (Atticus) Laws: Thank you all. Next?
[15:42:25] Bruno: Pls Ros
[15:42:30] Rosalyn Johnson: Ok
[15:42:33] Rosalyn Johnson: Hiya
[15:42:41] Rosalyn Johnson: Ladies and Gentlemen
[15:42:46] Rosalyn Johnson: I need to be frank
[15:43:22] Alexandre Orion: 'franche'
[15:43:24] Alexandre Orion:
[15:43:26] Rosalyn Johnson: the two positions which will be left vacant are not things someone can just volunteer for
[15:43:28] Rosalyn Johnson: ok?
[15:43:48] Rosalyn Johnson: A certain level of grit is required in these roles
[15:44:20] Rosalyn Johnson: because you know what? Those two people will have excecutive power to direct the clergy in my absence
[15:44:40] Rosalyn Johnson: its really important that the right people for those jobs be found
[15:44:44] Rosalyn Johnson: another thing
[15:45:02] Rosalyn Johnson: As Pastor, I would be the person in charge of the vision for the clergy
[15:45:48] Rosalyn Johnson: but, I need a group of people who will make that vision plain
[15:45:53] Rosalyn Johnson: does it make sense?
[15:46:19] Rosalyn Johnson: I hope you don't mind if I say this, but I am not in any particular rush to fill those two spots
[15:46:48] Rosalyn Johnson: As it is, I have created a plan in which I have 5 meetings scheduled
[15:47:00] Rosalyn Johnson: we will be working on the ground work for the clergy
[15:47:23] Rosalyn Johnson: if anyone wants to fill any of those positions, please make your voice heard at all five
[15:47:29] Rosalyn Johnson: we can go from there
[15:48:06] Rosalyn Johnson: Any questions?
[15:48:17] Leah Chisholm: What is your vision?
[15:48:24] Rosalyn Johnson: good question
[15:48:34] Rosalyn Johnson: and I will answer that in the next topic
[15:48:46] Bruno: great
[15:49:05] Bruno: Phortis
[15:49:53] Phortis Nespin: Ros, are you interested to be Pastor? What positions need to be filled other than that?
[15:50:18] Rosalyn Johnson: Assistant Pastor for the Seminary and Associate Pastor
[15:50:43] Phortis Nespin: So I take that as yes
[15:50:58] Carlos Mar: lol
[15:51:10] Bruno: Can I take the word?
[15:51:19] Phortis Nespin: please
[15:52:06] Rosalyn Johnson: Yes, I am interested in fulfilling the role of pastor
[15:52:12] Rosalyn Johnson: I have a tentative plan
[15:52:23] Bruno: So far it has been decided without objection that Ros will be the temporary Pastor
[15:52:46] Phortis Nespin: Yes I get that but who else is as qualified?
[15:53:25] D. Alex Bird: No one, as far as I can see.
[15:53:34] Bruno: I think Ros is most quilified
[15:53:41] Rosalyn Johnson: Maybe the council sees differently
[15:53:50] Bruno: Just a min pls
[15:53:58] Phortis Nespin: SOOOO? why not just make the motion to fill that position immediately?
[15:53:59] Rosalyn Johnson: or maybe the council would like to take the clergy in a different direction
[15:54:38] Bruno: Phortis Raise a question
[15:54:52] Bruno: Pls, we have objetions to vote a motion?
[15:56:15] Phortis Nespin: It is easier to fill the lower positions than the one at the top, but in this case we have a very qualified Pastor applicant and I feel we should get on with it!
[15:56:26] Bruno: Great
[15:56:27] Bruno: Carlos
[15:56:31] Rosalyn Johnson: :$
[15:57:43] Carlos Mar: the need was the position and pasot caubur posed it to us we informed him he placed the now current temp on it ...i would think as wise people we can give that the time and ability to not need to say a definate today savy?
[15:58:45] Carlos Mar: no need to fill anything now the need has been met right? if it is what it is it will be in this case if it is and we all know tenit will be in its time. isnt that whatwe as clergy are kinna thinking we should be?
[15:59:03] Carlos Mar: a [eftect moment for examle and all
[15:59:28] Carlos Mar: sorry a perfect moment of example is given to us shouldnt we take i? as well?
[15:59:30] Carlos Mar: ...
[16:00:54] Bruno: Who would like to vote the motion now say yes, the opposites say no.
[16:01:03] Bruno: PLs
[16:01:16] Phortis Nespin: Yes
[16:01:31] Bart: Yes
[16:02:12] Leah Chisholm: Not for permanent positions. I'm ok making temp decisions today
[16:02:17] Rick (Atticus) Laws: Considering still.
[16:02:35] Bruno: Yes or no people pls
[16:02:40] Leah Chisholm: No
[16:03:11] Carlos Mar: no for permanit
[16:03:22] Phortis Nespin: This vote is not the end all, it is a strong message to Council that we back Ros as the permanent Pastor. This is not a final vote. We do not have that final say.
[16:03:31] Rick (Atticus) Laws: I'm a yes.
[16:03:36] Alexandre Orion: well ....
[16:03:41] Alexandre Orion: okay
[16:04:03] Alexandre Orion: there is an easier way to do this that doesn't involve "temporary"
[16:04:11] Alexandre Orion: but I'll just let you all go on this way
[16:04:57] Rosalyn Johnson: Guys, this is a bit awkward
[16:05:06] Rosalyn Johnson: if we don't have to make changes
[16:05:22] Rosalyn Johnson: Let me go through the same things that I am putting on to others
[16:05:26] Rosalyn Johnson: 5 meetings
[16:05:27] Bruno: Pls.
[16:05:28] Rosalyn Johnson: ok?
[16:05:35] D. Alex Bird: We have a procedure for such things. Please continue.
[16:05:51] Bruno: We decide don't vote a motion
[16:06:15] Bruno: so, Cabur will talk to council to put Ros as Temporaly Pastor
[16:06:29] D. Alex Bird: Already done.
[16:06:36] Rosalyn Johnson: right
[16:06:42] Bruno: And Carlos will talk to Cabut about he wants about fill office
[16:07:05] Bruno: so, I want close this topic until next meeting
[16:07:29] Bruno: If all want we can continue it at clergy forum
[16:07:46] Bruno: But we decide it and we go to the next topic
[16:08:19] Bruno: We use the same method, so I ask respect the others
[16:08:36] Bruno: the topic is Clergy Mission
[16:09:16] Phortis Nespin: How can you talk Vision without a Pastor to guide it. Next topic
[16:09:23] Bruno: Clergy just going with no mission, no project
[16:09:40] Bruno: we have a few people and few seminarians
[16:10:09] Bruno: So we need decide a specific mission and a solid project
[16:10:32] Bruno: What we decided here will be a compass to our Pastor and all synod
[16:10:42] Bruno: Pls Ros, you have the word
[16:10:49] Rosalyn Johnson: Right
[16:11:00] Rosalyn Johnson: I was asked earlier this meeting what my vision was
[16:11:12] Rosalyn Johnson: Simply put
[16:11:48] Rosalyn Johnson: The mission of the clergy is to provide support to the spiritual needs of those within the virtual walls of our temple.
[16:11:56] Rosalyn Johnson: now I will explain it
[16:12:18] Rosalyn Johnson: the Knight is typically seen on horse back is he/she not?
[16:12:32] Carlos Mar: true in armor
[16:12:49] Rosalyn Johnson: Therefore they are mobile, outside of the walls of the temple, engaging in the world
[16:13:04] Rosalyn Johnson: sure some may teach within the temple, but some do not
[16:13:21] Rosalyn Johnson: in a perfect world knights are knights to those around them
[16:13:31] Rosalyn Johnson: this, unfortunately leaves a gap
[16:13:38] Rosalyn Johnson: a gap which the clergy can fill
[16:13:59] Rosalyn Johnson: think of it? What are clergy seen as, monks, priests, what have you
[16:14:06] Rosalyn Johnson: but they are INSIDE of the walls
[16:14:34] Rosalyn Johnson: so we are looking for a group of people to see to the needs of the people within these walls
[16:15:02] Rosalyn Johnson: sometimes I don't think we understand what a delicate situation some of the new people, and older people are in
[16:15:09] Rosalyn Johnson: some of us are lucky
[16:15:39] Rosalyn Johnson: we have houses of worship and religious activities which take place inside of brick and morter places
[16:16:02] Rosalyn Johnson: but that is not the case for the rest of us
[16:16:08] Rosalyn Johnson: and we need something
[16:16:13] Rosalyn Johnson: that's why we came here
[16:17:07] Rosalyn Johnson: Can we please help our fellow members by being their support within these walls?
[16:17:40] Bruno: Can I?
[16:17:47] Rosalyn Johnson: yes
[16:18:03] Bruno: I think you touch in the right word
[16:18:12] Bruno: Support
[16:19:04] Bruno: As member of clergy and member of ToTJO since almost three years ago
[16:19:23] Bruno: I see so much people who needs support
[16:20:18] Bruno: We have people with depression, with some dilemas about sexuality, Prejudice, abuse
[16:20:55] Bruno: When I enter the clergy order, I have this thoughts
[16:21:33] Bruno: And I think this must be the thoughts of clergy
[16:21:46] Bruno: helping people, support they
[16:22:25] Bruno: And we're not doing this
[16:22:33] Alexandre Orion: we aren't ?
[16:22:46] Bruno: not in my opinion
[16:23:01] Bruno: we can do much more much more
[16:23:02] Alexandre Orion: how would you know ?
[16:23:23] Bruno: that is not the point Alexandre
[16:23:33] Alexandre Orion: it is ...
[16:23:38] Bruno: The point is, we can do more with organization
[16:23:39] Alexandre Orion: it is the one you just made
[16:23:51] Alexandre Orion: only in letting people know we're there
[16:24:00] Alexandre Orion: the actual helping isn't public
[16:24:05] Alexandre Orion: it isn't going to show up
[16:24:13 | Editado 16:24:22] Bruno: we need just have a north
[16:24:13] Alexandre Orion: and it certainly ought not
[16:24:23] Rosalyn Johnson: well
[16:24:35] Rosalyn Johnson: I'm inclined to agree with Bruno
[16:24:50] Bruno: and when we have a north we can do much more than now
[16:24:50] Rosalyn Johnson: We could do more by way of organization
[16:24:56] Bruno: just it
[16:25:06] Bruno: not be one or two
[16:25:19] Bruno: but like a whole, I living organism
[16:25:48] Bruno: we need unite people, but we just do it under the same mission
[16:25:53] Bruno: that is my point
[16:25:58] Bruno: pls Carlos
[16:26:02] Carlos Mar: The block is a weekly monthly place i post my thoughts and concerns my little space to serve. (Lerned that from my TM) as an example we can all have our own little spots to serve. we can all have some spot some fold some one if we try, make a spot call it what u want and minister like you. i challange you clergy .
[16:26:18] Carlos Mar: we need more involment heres how, one way
[16:26:23] Carlos Mar: not the only way
[16:26:33] Alexandre Orion:
[16:26:37 | Editado 16:26:38] Rosalyn Johnson: I think you are touching on a good point
[16:26:52] Carlos Mar: i offer an example of clergy in motion lol
[16:27:08] Rosalyn Johnson: we haven't gotten past the mission
[16:27:08] Carlos Mar: on of many currently in practice!
[16:27:11] Carlos Mar: ...
[16:27:17] Rosalyn Johnson: Is it a good thing?
[16:27:27] Rosalyn Johnson: do we need to word it differently?
[16:27:32] Rosalyn Johnson: or scrap it or what?
[16:27:49] Carlos Mar: the mission should be the ability to go out and meet the need right?
[16:27:56] Carlos Mar: to meet?
[16:29:13] Bruno: Can I pass the word?
[16:29:22] Rosalyn Johnson: yep
[16:29:31] Bruno: Bart
[16:29:40] Bart: Thank you
[16:29:46 | Editado 16:30:29] Bart: We have compared the knights and monks in churches, but if we compare our clergy to a ‘material’ church we see that ministers perform tasks besides private chats. I do not have knowledge what happens in the clergy corners as I do not see it. The thing I like to ask, what does the mission say outside of these requirements of being active in closed chats? Are some ministers inactive? What are the minimal requirements around it? Should they be made? I would like to ask what the ideas are about those aspects of the mission.
[16:29:48] Bart:
[16:30:48] Bart: ***
[16:30:54] Bruno: Well
[16:30:56] Rosalyn Johnson: YAY we are moving in that direction
[16:31:20] Bruno: I see we dont decide what the clargy mission is
[16:31:29] Bruno: not now
[16:31:58] Bruno: we need think about it and talk about it
[16:32:14] Carlos Mar: i concur
[16:32:16] Bruno: Exhaustively
[16:32:38] Bruno: so I propose to create a chat at Fórum about this
[16:32:39] Alexandre Orion: exhaustively ?
[16:32:48] Rosalyn Johnson: what?
[16:33:03] Alexandre Orion: we're already planning the meetings for the 33rd Century
[16:33:12] Rosalyn Johnson: probably not exhaustively
[16:33:15] Bruno: lol
[16:33:22] Rosalyn Johnson: the fact is
[16:33:32] Rosalyn Johnson: If not this mission then what one?
[16:33:47] Bruno: Way of saying
[16:34:22] Bruno: we now, clergy needs provide support
[16:34:42] Rosalyn Johnson: We will be putting the cart before the horse
[16:34:55] Bruno: but we need be more Specific
[16:34:56] Rosalyn Johnson: We need a mission to stand behind
[16:35:02] Rosalyn Johnson: that's fine
[16:35:12] Rosalyn Johnson: and we need to discuss what that means
[16:35:20] Bruno: our mission is provide spiritual support
[16:35:27] Bruno: yes
[16:35:35] Bruno: and how we do it
[16:35:40] Bruno: that is my point
[16:35:46] Rosalyn Johnson: good question and the next one in line
[16:36:01] Rosalyn Johnson: A set of objectives to go with the mission
[16:36:09] Bruno: so we can create a post at clergy forum
[16:36:21] Bruno: and talk about it until next meeting
[16:36:31] Rosalyn Johnson: we can start the discussion here, unless we are all tired
[16:36:36] Bruno: that is my propose
[16:37:09] Bruno: who want go ahead with this discussion say yes, they don't want say no pls
[16:37:19] Bart: yes
[16:37:59] Alexandre Orion: yes
[16:38:09] Carlos Mar: forum post for clergy yes / no
[16:38:27] Alexandre Orion: yes, that is what I meant too
[16:38:34] Bruno: ok ok
[16:38:34] Alexandre Orion: make a forum thread on it
[16:38:41] Leah Chisholm: Yes for forum
[16:39:18] Bruno: 4 for post and 2 for continue here
[16:39:31] Bruno: we have a decision
[16:39:59] Bruno: I will create a post at clergy fórum after my dinner
[16:40:19] Bruno: last topic guys, Just be quickly here
[16:40:31] Bruno: frequecy of clergy meetings
[16:41:00] Bruno: Monthly
[16:41:22] Bruno: Every two months
[16:41:33] Bruno: every two weeks
[16:41:52] Bruno: we can convoque extraordinary meetings or not
[16:41:58] Bruno: that stuff
[16:42:01] Bruno: pls Ros
[16:43:03] Bruno: any ideia guys?
[16:43:06] Bart: I have one..
[16:43:11] Bruno: pls
[16:44:09] Rosalyn Johnson: computer froze
[16:44:19] Bruno: just jump in Ros
[16:44:29] Carlos Mar: ...monthly / as needed ....leaves one month if you dont have to not to an option
[16:44:32] Bart: If you make a poll at the clergy corner, make it a rule that every moth or two months the poll will be refreshed. If there is a x amount of interest, make a meeting? Maybe an seperate thread in case if something would not fit in to use a poll?
[16:44:43] Bart: Just a suggestion ehm..
[16:44:45] Bart:
[16:44:48] Bart: ***
[16:45:13] Rosalyn Johnson: Right
[16:45:15] Rosalyn Johnson: so
[16:45:28] Bruno: pls Ros
[16:45:40] Rosalyn Johnson: The plan that I have is as follows:
[16:45:59] Rosalyn Johnson: ● Create a mission statement and set of objectives that the clergy can get behind
● Determine how the general clergy would like to be governed
● Create a set of bylaws for the government of the clergy
[16:46:18] Rosalyn Johnson: those are my objectives within the first few months
[16:46:22] D. Alex Bird: very nice
[16:46:35] Rosalyn Johnson: to do this effectively, we can't let a lot of time slide
[16:46:44] Rosalyn Johnson: so this first meeting is a discussion meeting
[16:47:13] Rosalyn Johnson: the next one will be on May 13 at 18:00 and we will vote on the mission statement and the objectives
[16:47:55] Rosalyn Johnson: Then on May 27 we will discuss how the clergy will be governed
[16:48:20] Rosalyn Johnson: if we like the current system we can keep it, if not, we need to decide what will work better
[16:48:28] Rosalyn Johnson: there will be ONE meeting for this
[16:48:35] Rosalyn Johnson: with voting happening in the forum
[16:48:40] Rosalyn Johnson: then
[16:49:09] Rosalyn Johnson: on June 10th and June 24 we will start working on the Bylaws
[16:49:29] Rosalyn Johnson: and we will work on them until they are polished enough to send to council
[16:49:51] Rosalyn Johnson: having meetings every two weeks until then
[16:50:06] Bruno: sounds like a schedule
[16:50:14] Carlos Mar: lol
[16:50:37] Bruno: well, can we do it like Ros proposed?
[16:50:54] Rosalyn Johnson: after we get the bylaws sorted we can move to monthly
[16:51:04] Rosalyn Johnson: Im not that much of a bastard
[16:51:12] Rick (Atticus) Laws: (ok)
[16:51:14] Bruno: lol
[16:51:36] Bruno: great. Any objection follow this schedule people?
[16:51:52] Leah Chisholm: Nope
[16:52:04] Carlos Mar: i agree but may not be present for it all!
[16:52:29] Rosalyn Johnson: make your voice heard some kind of way
[16:52:39] Rosalyn Johnson: or I will make everyone wear pink tutus
[16:53:00] Rick (Atticus) Laws: (already got mine on)
[16:53:04] Bruno: just say what is your point Carlos. I'll raise it for you
[16:53:31] Carlos Mar: i look good in a burlap sack pastor a tutu will add color jk!
[16:53:56] Bruno: ok guys
[16:53:57] Carlos Mar: no point i like the schedule ill do my best to join
[16:54:36] Bruno: so the next meeting will be 05/13 at 18 UTC
[16:55:00] Bruno: everyone do the best to be present
[16:55:28] Bruno: Especially the older ones. We are the exemple
[16:55:58] Bruno: can we recite the creed and end it? If anyone have something more to say
[16:56:20] Bruno: ok.

[5/13/2017 11:22:51 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: We will begin with Roll
[5/13/2017 11:22:59 AM] Alexandre Orion: présent
[5/13/2017 11:23:05 AM] Carlos Mar: Here
[5/13/2017 11:23:05 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Rosalyn J
[5/13/2017 11:23:06 AM] Rick (Atticus) Laws: Atticus
[5/13/2017 11:23:08 AM] Peter Kis: here
[5/13/2017 11:23:09 AM] Bart: Present
[5/13/2017 11:23:23 AM] Proteus: present

[5/13/2017 11:24:14 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: ok great. We'll do good work today
[5/13/2017 11:24:34 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: I would like to say that we will probably be taking any official votes to the forum
[5/13/2017 11:24:58 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: there were quite a few clergy who sent their apologies and arent able to be here today
[5/13/2017 11:25:10 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: but we can work out the finer details here
[5/13/2017 11:25:17 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: and present something
[5/13/2017 11:25:32 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Our agenda is as follows:
[5/13/2017 11:25:39 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Alex's announcement
[5/13/2017 11:26:04 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: The Mission and Objectives of the Clergy
[5/13/2017 11:26:11 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Alright

[5/13/2017 11:26:19 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Alexandre, you have the word
[5/13/2017 11:26:27 AM] Alexandre Orion: Thank you, Ros
[5/13/2017 11:26:29 AM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 11:27:28 AM] Alexandre Orion: This is a primary statement within the Clergy ; there will be an official announcement made later (in a couple of days) by the Secretary to the Council for the rest of the Temple ....
[5/13/2017 11:28:33 AM] Alexandre Orion: As of 11h44 UTC yesterday morning, Rosalyn Johnson has been unanimously voted Pastor-Elect of the TotJO
[5/13/2017 11:29:33 AM] Alexandre Orion: At an upcoming ceremony, she shall be ordained Bishop in order to take up the Office of Pastor to which she is now confirmed
[5/13/2017 11:30:22 AM] Alexandre Orion: As his final act as Pastor of the Order, Cabur Senaar will conduct the ordination, at which time the transfer of Office shall be official
[5/13/2017 11:30:59 AM] Alexandre Orion: Thus, please join me in congratulating the new Pastor-Elect of the TotJO : Rosalyn
[5/13/2017 11:31:20 AM] Rick (Atticus) Laws: (champagne) Congratulations, Ros.
[5/13/2017 11:31:26 AM] Peter Kis: congratulations Rosalyn, that's truly awesome!!!
[5/13/2017 11:31:33 AM] Carlos Mar: Here here !!
[5/13/2017 11:31:53 AM] Bart: Congratulations, thankful to have you around! (holidayspirit) (party)
[5/13/2017 11:33:09 AM] Alexandre Orion: Thank you for your commitment, Ros-lass ...
[5/13/2017 11:33:26 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: ah thanks
[5/13/2017 11:33:32 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: I shall do my best
[5/13/2017 11:34:20 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Anything else, Alex?
[5/13/2017 11:34:54 AM] Alexandre Orion: I believe I've finished ...
[5/13/2017 11:35:10 AM] Alexandre Orion: ... unless you want me to tell them about the sacrifice ?
[5/13/2017 11:35:22 AM] Alexandre Orion: I was going to leave that as a surprise
[5/13/2017 11:35:27 AM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 11:35:36 AM] Proteus: congratulations Ros!
[5/13/2017 11:35:46 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: I'm also surprised
[5/13/2017 11:35:51 AM] Rick (Atticus) Laws: Sacrifices, again?
[5/13/2017 11:35:56 AM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 11:36:05 AM] Peter Kis: we have lambs outside. Just saying.
[5/13/2017 11:37:02 AM] Alexandre Orion: as it were, when we were talking about it in Council, I said that the general announcement could wait 'til Adder was back to make it
[5/13/2017 11:37:44 AM] Alexandre Orion: then we could just say that she is pastor-elect until we can get her ordained -- or sacrificed, whichever
[5/13/2017 11:38:11 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: I want the one with the least pain
[5/13/2017 11:38:32 AM] Alexandre Orion: ah ... sacrifice it is then !
[5/13/2017 11:38:41 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: right

[5/13/2017 11:38:47 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Well
[5/13/2017 11:38:57 AM] Alexandre Orion: anyway ... let's get on with the rest of the agenda
[5/13/2017 11:38:58 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Let us get to the meat of the meeting
[5/13/2017 11:39:38 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Two hours ago I sent a link to this room with all the replies from the missions and objectives thread
[5/13/2017 11:39:53 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: and I want to spend the rest of the meeting ironing that out
[5/13/2017 11:40:01 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Did anyone see any common themes?
[5/13/2017 11:40:18 AM] Proteus: "spiritual wellbeing"
[5/13/2017 11:40:33 AM] Proteus: (oh sorry)
[5/13/2017 11:40:39 AM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 11:40:40 AM] Bart: [Saturday, May 13, 2017 9:30 AM] Bart:

<<< I have seen subjects like role of ranks, council and clergy, seminary, mission, basic structure. but well.. (mm) Most posts are based on the first post/request of Kyber. (angel) If I where to link a theme to the repies I would think about future road, structure development, and community work aiming to the guests and members of the Temple and outside the temple? Not sure if that would help.. but that are the things I have noticed. :^)
[5/13/2017 11:41:27 AM] Bart: road, development, community work
[5/13/2017 11:42:13 AM] Bart: ***

[5/13/2017 11:43:57 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Carlos has the word
[5/13/2017 11:44:18 AM] Carlos Mar: Our goal as a collective is to serve correct ?
[5/13/2017 11:45:45 AM] Carlos Mar: Constant re adjusting and constant questioning others gives us very little action in practice
[5/13/2017 11:46:29 AM] Carlos Mar: Maybe ... We focus on the serve rather that the "what should every one else be doing"
[5/13/2017 11:46:45 AM] Carlos Mar: ***
[5/13/2017 11:47:05 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: I'm not quite sure what you are getting at Carlos
[5/13/2017 11:47:16 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Do you mean on an individual level?
[5/13/2017 11:47:32 AM] Carlos Mar: Yes
[5/13/2017 11:47:56 AM] Carlos Mar: Self paced ...
[5/13/2017 11:49:28 AM] Carlos Mar: The whole ahould not be at the mercy of levels... but commitment , actual action not opinion
[5/13/2017 11:49:50 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: mercy of levels?
[5/13/2017 11:50:08 AM] Carlos Mar: Some people are in difrent levels in their life
[5/13/2017 11:50:16 AM] Carlos Mar: We are all on difrent levels
[5/13/2017 11:50:25 AM] Carlos Mar: Rather than those levels keep us ...
[5/13/2017 11:50:30 AM] Carlos Mar: Let's just do it
[5/13/2017 11:51:05 AM] Carlos Mar: Let's give our clergy options
[5/13/2017 11:51:20 AM] Carlos Mar: ...
[5/13/2017 11:51:23 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: absolutely
[5/13/2017 11:51:42 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Is there anyone else that would like to address the topic?
[5/13/2017 11:51:48 AM] Carlos Mar: Thanks ros
[5/13/2017 11:51:50 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: thank you carlos
[5/13/2017 11:53:06 AM] Bart: What kind of options do you mean Carlos?
[5/13/2017 11:53:07 AM] Bart: ***
[5/13/2017 11:53:09 AM] Proteus: I'm sorry, could the question here be clarified?
[5/13/2017 11:53:28 AM] Carlos Mar: Action to serve
[5/13/2017 11:53:36 AM] Carlos Mar: Things to do
[5/13/2017 11:53:50 AM] Carlos Mar: Serve in action options
[5/13/2017 11:54:04 AM] Carlos Mar: No more what ifs ... Let's start doing
[5/13/2017 11:54:13 AM] Carlos Mar: ***
[5/13/2017 11:54:14 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: In other words: projects or roles?
[5/13/2017 11:54:15 AM] Proteus: so, regarding practical applications of clergy then?
[5/13/2017 11:54:24 AM] Carlos Mar: Yes pls
[5/13/2017 11:54:36 AM] Carlos Mar: Active and avalible
[5/13/2017 11:55:55 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: Active and available projects?
[5/13/2017 11:55:58 AM] Rosalyn Johnson: or roles?
[5/13/2017 11:56:39 AM] Carlos Mar: Yes self paced so... We Kinna have to make em up on our own , no one here will tell another you have to do anythin. , I won't not my cup .
[5/13/2017 11:57:03 AM] Carlos Mar: To grow we need activity
[5/13/2017 11:57:16 AM] Carlos Mar: Action flow and ... Ebb

[5/13/2017 11:59:03 AM] Proteus: well, lets review what kinds of things clergy has had to do in the past, then look at what we've learned up to this point about what is needed, and adjust those things to fulfil what is missing.
[5/13/2017 11:59:39 AM] Proteus: of course there is the question about what the role of clergy is. are we still on that or past it? or is this a precursor to that?

[5/13/2017 12:01:09 PM] Alexandre Orion: I didn't want to step on Rick ... it was more in relation to what Ethan and Carlos were talking about
[5/13/2017 12:01:54 PM] Alexandre Orion: what I was going to say hereafter would be completely uprooted if this doesn't get addressed
[5/13/2017 12:02:14 PM] Alexandre Orion: first, I feel that Carlos is right about us needing to keep moving
[5/13/2017 12:02:43 PM] Alexandre Orion: sometimes we'll take a bad step, but we're still doing okay if we keep moving along
[5/13/2017 12:03:04 PM] Carlos Mar: Foward !
[5/13/2017 12:03:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: I'm not sure that clergy has a "practical" application -- not in the usual sense of the word "practical"
[5/13/2017 12:03:27 PM] Alexandre Orion: people don't need clergy to explain natural phenomena
[5/13/2017 12:03:52 PM] Alexandre Orion: they don't need clergy for knowing what is moral/ethical up to a quite un-certain limit
[5/13/2017 12:04:26 PM] Alexandre Orion: on the other hand, people do need us for the things on which all that is "practical" rests -- that is : how we experience things
[5/13/2017 12:05:29 PM] Alexandre Orion: we are sometimes ourselves trapped in the bubble of conforming to what "clergy" do as per a generalised image of herding a flock of sheep
[5/13/2017 12:05:36 PM] Alexandre Orion: or something like that
[5/13/2017 12:05:53 PM] Alexandre Orion: we have to move forward out of that
[5/13/2017 12:06:18 PM] Alexandre Orion: we can look at what clergies have done in the past, but that was in a past era
[5/13/2017 12:07:00 PM] Alexandre Orion: people don't need to consult clergy for what they can get from doctors, lawyers and encyclopaedia
[5/13/2017 12:07:27 PM] Alexandre Orion: on the other hand, there are questions that these learned professions can't answer
[5/13/2017 12:07:32 PM] Alexandre Orion: we can't either
[5/13/2017 12:07:44 PM] Alexandre Orion: and that is where we need to go forward into
[5/13/2017 12:08:02 PM] Alexandre Orion: ***

[5/13/2017 12:08:56 PM] Carlos Mar: Yes , Truthfully.... practically ... we are miles away from our mission , I see ..we as clergy are in an un--avalible status mostly our goal should have some form of Avalibility unsee the foward as the Avalibility we will be BLESSED if we adapt this ...
[5/13/2017 12:09:15 PM] Carlos Mar: We are present but .... Not being used
[5/13/2017 12:10:24 PM] Carlos Mar: ...
[5/13/2017 12:10:27 PM] Carlos Mar: ***
[5/13/2017 12:10:57 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Most of that I got
[5/13/2017 12:11:13 PM] Carlos Mar: Bad fgrammer sorry
[5/13/2017 12:11:34 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I got a little confused at "unsee the forward as the availability we will be blessed"
[5/13/2017 12:12:01 PM] Carlos Mar: We need more green dots present less in un avalibles l o l
[5/13/2017 12:12:24 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: in chat?
[5/13/2017 12:12:36 PM] Carlos Mar: On the Temple maybe ...
[5/13/2017 12:13:01 PM] Carlos Mar: Yes
[5/13/2017 12:13:10 PM] Carlos Mar: Clergy you can talk to lol
[5/13/2017 12:13:22 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: ok cool

[5/13/2017 12:13:53 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: valuable information so far, but maybe we are a bit off course
[5/13/2017 12:14:28 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: What I really would like is a simple statement about the purpose (or mission) of the clergy
[5/13/2017 12:14:42 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: and then a list of ways in which we fulfill that purpose
[5/13/2017 12:15:00 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: this can (and needs to) be broad
[5/13/2017 12:15:10 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: as broad as we can make it
[5/13/2017 12:15:30 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: but something people can walk away with an understanding of
[5/13/2017 12:15:34 PM] Alexandre Orion: to inspire people away from rationality and practicality
[5/13/2017 12:15:37 PM] Alexandre Orion: (think)
[5/13/2017 12:15:39 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: something that gives us some direction

[5/13/2017 12:16:18 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Proteus has the word
[5/13/2017 12:17:44 PM] Proteus: there are at least a couple aspects about being a Jedi that a clergyperson can be of use with guiding where a teaching master may not
[5/13/2017 12:19:31 PM] Proteus: one is the existential condition one is or may end up in which one may need help with getting through or understanding
[5/13/2017 12:20:06 PM] Proteus: People come to the temple, and are shown things that turn their reality upside down
[5/13/2017 12:20:27 PM] Proteus: they have a crisis of faith or in the state of their reality
[5/13/2017 12:21:52 PM] Proteus: on top of that they might try to gather explanation from general forum discussion which probably would include responses from anyone including guests who may not have helpful responses
[5/13/2017 12:22:09 PM] Proteus: they get discouraged and leave
[5/13/2017 12:22:54 PM] Proteus: there is always the more ritual aspects such as marriages, funerals, etc
[5/13/2017 12:23:07 PM] Proteus: I'm not sure what my thoughts are on that
[5/13/2017 12:25:05 PM] Proteus: all I know is that on the deeper level, what I mention above is always what comes to mind when I think about what the clergy would be about, especially considering what we learn in the seminary combined with what we learn in the IP.
[5/13/2017 12:25:13 PM] Proteus: ***
[5/13/2017 12:25:29 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Right
[5/13/2017 12:25:35 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: thank you E

[5/13/2017 12:27:54 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I'd like to speak a bit
[5/13/2017 12:27:57 PM] Rosalyn Johnson:
[5/13/2017 12:28:26 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I've been a member of the clergy for a while now
[5/13/2017 12:28:53 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I have noticed the feeling of:
[5/13/2017 12:28:58 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Not being used
[5/13/2017 12:29:24 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I have noticed the confusion of: what/why are the clergy?
[5/13/2017 12:29:43 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: and I have heard: well the clergy don't really do anything
[5/13/2017 12:30:04 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: its why I wanted to bring forward this topic
[5/13/2017 12:30:26 PM] Proteus: was there something needing done with the bylaws?
[5/13/2017 12:30:35 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I do not, I repeat, do not, want to create a one size fits all clergy
[5/13/2017 12:30:41 PM] Carlos Mar: I say no
[5/13/2017 12:31:03 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I dont want to sit and say this and that needs to be done or you cannot call yourself active clergy
[5/13/2017 12:31:52 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: If I ever do that, or think about doing that to something as precious as this body or the wider temple I am asking each of you to tell me
[5/13/2017 12:32:02 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I never want to do that
[5/13/2017 12:32:23 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: what I do want to do is create space and direction for this body
[5/13/2017 12:32:38 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Carlos talked about active and available
[5/13/2017 12:33:01 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I believe there does in fact need to be some atonomy
[5/13/2017 12:33:24 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: but atonomy doesnt need to be an excuse for invisability
[5/13/2017 12:34:09 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: We can all make our own projects, but our projects need to be aligned with a mission we can get behind
[5/13/2017 12:34:33 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: and we all need to know what others are doing otherwise we will step on someone's toes eventually
[5/13/2017 12:34:51 PM] Carlos Mar: There is a solution to that
[5/13/2017 12:35:12 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: if carlos makes an outreach project and I make one and neither communicates with the other we may end up doing double work
[5/13/2017 12:35:48 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I'm not suggesting that the minute details of every encounter be divulged
[5/13/2017 12:35:52 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: but hey
[5/13/2017 12:36:15 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: if your project is to send cards to members who are struggling, let us know
[5/13/2017 12:36:21 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: we'll cheer you on
[5/13/2017 12:36:26 PM] Carlos Mar: ... We are both avslible if... Our mission is the same .
[5/13/2017 12:36:49 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: so please dont be afraid when I say mission and objectives
[5/13/2017 12:36:56 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: We are not a business
[5/13/2017 12:37:04 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: We are a body of clergy
[5/13/2017 12:37:11 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: we will never be a business
[5/13/2017 12:37:19 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: but we need a guiding point
[5/13/2017 12:37:25 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: thats all
[5/13/2017 12:37:32 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: *

[5/13/2017 12:37:42 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Alex has the word
[5/13/2017 12:37:48 PM] Carlos Mar: Sorry ...
[5/13/2017 12:37:52 PM] Carlos Mar: So sorry
[5/13/2017 12:38:40 PM] Alexandre Orion: there were a few things that I wanted to put out there for thought but also ask you to feel about (because "thought" doesn't get around it)
[5/13/2017 12:38:57 PM] Alexandre Orion: first of all, the ritual aspect of Clergy is pretty important
[5/13/2017 12:39:22 PM] Alexandre Orion: the first and foremost thing that ritual does is it gives us something to count on
[5/13/2017 12:39:31 PM] Alexandre Orion: it may not answer all of our questions
[5/13/2017 12:40:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: but it gives us the space to have questions whereas the world we move through most of the time expects us to have answers
[5/13/2017 12:40:25 PM] Alexandre Orion: ritual is also how we reset our clocks
[5/13/2017 12:41:22 PM] Alexandre Orion: it was like when Campbell was saying that we need to have time to go to our special place -- to listen to corny music that we like without having to think about "why"
[5/13/2017 12:42:39 PM] Alexandre Orion: sure, we may set the time and date for rituals by our clocks and calendars, but during the ritual itself, it synchronises our profane (everyday, worldly) time with sacred time (eternity, the present moment - outside of time)
[5/13/2017 12:42:58 PM] Alexandre Orion: in short, during the ritual, it doesn't matter what time or day it is
[5/13/2017 12:43:16 PM] Alexandre Orion: our experience of it is in illo tempore
[5/13/2017 12:43:27 PM] Alexandre Orion: ("once upon a time ...")
[5/13/2017 12:43:53 PM] Alexandre Orion: by sharing ritual, this is how we reinforce community
[5/13/2017 12:44:10 PM] Alexandre Orion: and community is the first, best solution to solitude
[5/13/2017 12:44:43 PM] Alexandre Orion: that that even the solitude we feel confronted by that existential angst : "is this all I am ?"
[5/13/2017 12:45:07 PM] Alexandre Orion: we may need to do a little searching for an uncorrupted language
[5/13/2017 12:46:38 PM] Alexandre Orion: because what clergy do best is to guide people on their discovery of the transcendent = what is that vaste thing I'm of, that I've come out of, and that will eventually reabsorb me without a trace ... ?
[5/13/2017 12:46:44 PM] Alexandre Orion: but
[5/13/2017 12:46:47 PM] Alexandre Orion: but
[5/13/2017 12:47:00 PM] Alexandre Orion: this is where we get into the clergy trap :
[5/13/2017 12:48:59 PM] Alexandre Orion: when we say (and probably when we hear) terms like "transcendent/to transcend" we get the post-modern consumerist notions of Mararishi Mahesh Yogi (and consequently his Management School) or some kind of ultra-spiritual message from the Pleidians ...
[5/13/2017 12:49:04 PM] Alexandre Orion: that is not what it is
[5/13/2017 12:49:24 PM] Alexandre Orion: we also have to be very careful about how we intend the term "spiritual"
[5/13/2017 12:49:55 PM] Alexandre Orion: generally -- and it has been like this for a while -- "spiritual" is a pretty good commodity too
[5/13/2017 12:50:03 PM] Carlos Mar: I've learned that caution my self in my own personal path
[5/13/2017 12:50:33 PM] Alexandre Orion: most often, when we hear about something billed as "spiritual" it is much more "mental"
[5/13/2017 12:50:56 PM] Alexandre Orion: it is left-brain stuff that our Reason can get its teeth into
[5/13/2017 12:51:03 PM] Alexandre Orion: it is not
[5/13/2017 12:51:18 PM] Alexandre Orion: it can be understood only by saying what it is "like"
[5/13/2017 12:51:23 PM] Alexandre Orion: through allegory
[5/13/2017 12:52:19 PM] Bart: Maitre, about the ritual aspect, do you mean we should create a more standard format for rituals with more rituals?
[5/13/2017 12:52:20 PM] Alexandre Orion: certainly we are here to provide guidance to the Temple members - AND to one another ("clergy need clergy too")
[5/13/2017 12:53:14 PM] Alexandre Orion: rituals, Carlos, are anything that comes about when people come together in a particular attitude, at a particular time (and place)
[5/13/2017 12:53:19 PM] Alexandre Orion: and do the same thing
[5/13/2017 12:53:28 PM] Alexandre Orion: repetition becomes ritual
[5/13/2017 12:53:51 PM] Alexandre Orion: there are un-wholesome rituals just like there are some very wholesome ones
[5/13/2017 12:54:16 PM] Alexandre Orion: our goal should probably be to provide wholesome ones
[5/13/2017 12:54:18 PM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 12:54:22 PM] Alexandre Orion: anyway
[5/13/2017 12:54:48 PM] Alexandre Orion: ritual is to build supportive community
[5/13/2017 12:55:32 PM] Alexandre Orion: and our job as clergy isn't necessarily to know the answers about people's existential questions -- but to know the nature of existential questions as such
[5/13/2017 12:55:43 PM] Alexandre Orion: and give them the space for them
[5/13/2017 12:55:51 PM] Alexandre Orion: and be there with them
[5/13/2017 12:55:59 PM] Carlos Mar: Smiley face !
[5/13/2017 12:56:18 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Wow
[5/13/2017 12:56:27 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: quite a bit there

[5/13/2017 12:59:27 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Bart?
[5/13/2017 12:59:34 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Your question?
[5/13/2017 12:59:42 PM] Bart: Just my opinion nothing more.. How to say.. Direction is a difficult something. On one side we want to do something? And on the other side we want to prove that we do something? I would like to see a more active approach to the community. Personally I think that the mission of the Clergy is to guide people with personal troubles, but also to inspire people.
An inspired community is more able to go into action I believe. If someone is not inspired, how can he or she bind to the Temple and maybe choose to become a member? How can a Novice become a Knight without inspiration to finish his or her IP if troubles float inside? Inspiration + Guidance should be considered part of the mission pillars of a minister? If we do not create global missions we could create a global set of pillars to build our mission on? Also a basic instruction what a Clergy member can do for an individual could be listed on the site, with more visible instructions, so that people are more able and willingly to ask a Clergy member for help.
The worries I have about the Clergy go beyond this meeting, but to stay on topic, I hope that the goals of the clergy will aid one his personal mission to be of use to the community. Being more in one line might be useful, every person has different capabilities and skills, we should combine them more effectively if we want to make a global Clerical purpose, or individual mission. The clergy should invest more in her global structure in order to make a mission on Clerical scale, even if there is no fixed way, we need a fixed presentation, we should be like an unification of different missions and approaches aiming to a similar goal.
[5/13/2017 1:00:10 PM] Bart: Question is about becomming more familiar with people
[5/13/2017 1:00:18 PM] Bart: A lot of people do not know how the clergy works.
[5/13/2017 1:00:22 PM] Alexandre Orion: brilliant !
[5/13/2017 1:00:29 PM] Bart: :$
[5/13/2017 1:00:36 PM] Bart: ***

[5/13/2017 1:00:47 PM] Alexandre Orion: an anecdote :
[5/13/2017 1:01:40 PM] Alexandre Orion: when I was in grad school, we lived together with a political scientist and a ceramic engineer (pizo-electric stuff)
[5/13/2017 1:02:15 PM] Carlos Mar: Phones dying oh nooo love y'all !!!
[5/13/2017 1:02:23 PM] Alexandre Orion: and he would go to work at weird hours in the lab, while Heather (the political scientist) would churn through articles in the library
[5/13/2017 1:02:27 PM] Alexandre Orion: and me ...
[5/13/2017 1:02:28 PM] Alexandre Orion: well
[5/13/2017 1:02:30 PM] Bart: Force Shine with you Carlos!!
[5/13/2017 1:02:55 PM] Alexandre Orion: philosophy has to do with pondering questions, scratching out notes, thinking a lot
[5/13/2017 1:03:12 PM] Alexandre Orion: now, to us -- we had no clue what he did in the lab
[5/13/2017 1:03:16 PM] Carlos Mar: And may it find u every where u seek it Bart !
[5/13/2017 1:03:24 PM] Alexandre Orion: and I even went with him there a few times
[5/13/2017 1:03:39 PM] Alexandre Orion: still : no clue at all what he did
[5/13/2017 1:05:03 PM] Alexandre Orion: I'm better at having conversations with Heather, because there is more of an intellectual foothold - but even we would get 'separated' from one another because she deals with empirical data sets where my area is thoroughly set in the hypothetical/theoretical
[5/13/2017 1:05:20 PM] Alexandre Orion: it was easy for us to not really know what the others "do"
[5/13/2017 1:05:47 PM] Alexandre Orion: to the engineer, neither of us "did" anything
[5/13/2017 1:05:52 PM] Alexandre Orion: we would sit and read
[5/13/2017 1:05:58 PM] Alexandre Orion: I did the least of all
[5/13/2017 1:06:18 PM] Alexandre Orion: just a lot of "thinking" and writing on stuff that seems like it doesn't matter ....
[5/13/2017 1:06:29 PM] Alexandre Orion: ... because it has no "practical" application
[5/13/2017 1:07:20 PM] Alexandre Orion: but it is funny how when either of them were in an identity crisis -- he didn't go to the lab to "test" the questions
[5/13/2017 1:07:30 PM] Alexandre Orion: and she wouldn't go to the library
[5/13/2017 1:07:44 PM] Alexandre Orion: both of them chatted with me over coffee
[5/13/2017 1:07:49 PM] Alexandre Orion: that
[5/13/2017 1:07:55 PM | Edited 1:08:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: that is what clergy "do"
[5/13/2017 1:08:51 PM] Alexandre Orion: but it requires a lot of pondering, questioning, synthesising
[5/13/2017 1:08:53 PM] Bart: And yet people do not realize that.. at least.. that is what I come up with after reading trough this meeting comments. (mm)
[5/13/2017 1:09:07 PM] Alexandre Orion: that is what I was trying to illustrate
[5/13/2017 1:09:08 PM] Bart: People do not approach? If I recall that correctly.
[5/13/2017 1:09:14 PM] Alexandre Orion: they aren't going to know
[5/13/2017 1:09:29 PM] Alexandre Orion: and that maybe even having experienced first-hand what we do
[5/13/2017 1:09:38 PM] Carlos Mar: Because it is not some where we can all have as a guide
[5/13/2017 1:10:05 PM] Carlos Mar: Seriously we need to pen these things

[5/13/2017 1:10:08 PM] Proteus: how many clergy actively interact with other members of the temple to get to know them and establish a trust, similar to how many have with Alex here?
[5/13/2017 1:10:39 PM] Carlos Mar: I council often
[5/13/2017 1:10:57 PM] Carlos Mar: On and off the Temple
[5/13/2017 1:11:05 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I talk to people
[5/13/2017 1:11:10 PM] Alexandre Orion: same ... more off actually
[5/13/2017 1:11:21 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: not as often as I'd like
[5/13/2017 1:11:23 PM] Alexandre Orion: most here in the community
[5/13/2017 1:11:32 PM] Alexandre Orion: I mean Dijon
[5/13/2017 1:12:02 PM] Carlos Mar: I ask if we can pen these things ... A current that's the right word mission statement this is what we do
[5/13/2017 1:12:26 PM] Carlos Mar: So we can stop asking ... And start doing
[5/13/2017 1:12:53 PM] Proteus: we could, at least for the sake of it being established in some way, but perhaps the real need is for It to happen more than it just being proclaimed.
[5/13/2017 1:13:19 PM] Rick (Atticus) Laws: ^that
[5/13/2017 1:13:33 PM] Carlos Mar: I agree
[5/13/2017 1:13:59 PM] Carlos Mar: We need both
[5/13/2017 1:14:47 PM] Bart: Even if one cannot 'know' what a Clergy member does, it still needs some way to be expressed or people will hold back to seek contact.
[5/13/2017 1:15:07 PM] Bart: Just trying to say it confuses me how things are written out on the site..
[5/13/2017 1:15:13 PM] Bart: (mm)
[5/13/2017 1:15:23 PM] Carlos Mar: Let's clarify then ...
[5/13/2017 1:15:48 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: what the clergy does "is" currently written out on the FAQ's
[5/13/2017 1:16:06 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: let me see
[5/13/2017 1:16:11 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I can find it
[5/13/2017 1:16:22 PM] Alexandre Orion: the ontology of Clergy is a discussion in itself
[5/13/2017 1:16:24 PM] Bart: ,,If a member is struggling spiritually, or they need someone to talk to, or they need some guidance then that is what the clergy are there for.''
[5/13/2017 1:16:29 PM] Alexandre Orion: the "is-ness"
[5/13/2017 1:17:44 PM] Alexandre Orion: remember when Yoda made Luke go into the cave ?
[5/13/2017 1:18:00 PM] Bart: You do or do not?
[5/13/2017 1:18:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: as Master/Mentor ... Yoda merely took Luke to the cave and told him to go in
[5/13/2017 1:18:25 PM] Proteus: here is my question: how often does someone "come to clergy" for spiritual guidance?
[5/13/2017 1:18:47 PM | Edited 1:21:27 PM] Alexandre Orion: it is sort of our job, as Clergy, to be there in the cave
[5/13/2017 1:19:01 PM] Alexandre Orion: not to "help" other than just being there
[5/13/2017 1:19:13 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: AH brilliant
[5/13/2017 1:19:20 PM] Alexandre Orion: because everyone's "path" is full of caves
[5/13/2017 1:19:43 PM] Alexandre Orion: they are dark, damp, nasty, full of vile shit that we carry in with us
[5/13/2017 1:20:08 PM] Alexandre Orion: and there's just that "yah, I know right ?" bit of encouragement that can help get through it
[5/13/2017 1:20:54 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Thats really good
[5/13/2017 1:21:11 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: if we could put that in sentence form that would be wonderful
[5/13/2017 1:21:21 PM] Proteus: how often though have the clergy been approached?
[5/13/2017 1:21:45 PM] Alexandre Orion: I don't know, GE
[5/13/2017 1:21:45 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I dont think we keep record of that E
[5/13/2017 1:21:54 PM] Alexandre Orion: typically, we are always on the clock
[5/13/2017 1:22:04 PM] Alexandre Orion: and we don't really keep a tally
[5/13/2017 1:22:18 PM] Alexandre Orion: someone comes for a conversation, we have a conversation
[5/13/2017 1:22:23 PM] Alexandre Orion: then we forget about it
[5/13/2017 1:22:28 PM] Alexandre Orion: Tao 2
[5/13/2017 1:22:54 PM] Proteus: I'm not asking for specific numbers or records. i'm just asking about if there is a frequency there at all.
[5/13/2017 1:23:06 PM] Proteus: because if nobody has ever heard of it happening, well...
[5/13/2017 1:23:52 PM] Alexandre Orion: McTotJO - Over 50 Billion served
[5/13/2017 1:23:53 PM] Alexandre Orion:
[5/13/2017 1:24:03 PM] Carlos Mar: Lol
[5/13/2017 1:24:07 PM] Peter Kis: hehe

[5/13/2017 1:24:15 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I think we can mitigate that issue by creating projects that put our clergy in greater activity with the wider forum
[5/13/2017 1:24:29 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: People come to people they see
[5/13/2017 1:24:38 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: people who are present
[5/13/2017 1:24:45 PM] Carlos Mar: Avalible
[5/13/2017 1:25:05 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: people who demonstrate, in someway, to them, that they are capable of going into the cave
[5/13/2017 1:25:09 PM] Bart:
[5/13/2017 1:25:38 PM] Bart: More forum presence would be an amazing something indeed Rosa!
[5/13/2017 1:25:57 PM] Proteus: I think I ask because, I find myself wondering if many if anyone tends to feel they need the clergy, or feel they trust or confide in the clergy when they are going through something personal, and even how many members at totjo even get to a point of thinking about things deep enough to even get near hitting such a point as to need to.
[5/13/2017 1:26:08 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: Even so, I dont see why one of the projects couldnt be looking at the wall and seeing who might be struggling
[5/13/2017 1:26:41 PM] Alexandre Orion: I forget the wall is there :$
[5/13/2017 1:26:46 PM] Alexandre Orion: I don't want that job
[5/13/2017 1:26:50 PM] Carlos Mar: As do I
[5/13/2017 1:26:57 PM] Carlos Mar: Pass
[5/13/2017 1:27:04 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: LOL
[5/13/2017 1:27:08 PM] Bart: You get used to it.. eventually!
[5/13/2017 1:27:20 PM] Alexandre Orion: besides ... the worst struggling is probably not when people actually say "I'm struggling"
[5/13/2017 1:27:21 PM] Carlos Mar: I can learn
[5/13/2017 1:27:27 PM] Bart: I forgot to put the messages visibility a lot lately though.. :S
[5/13/2017 1:27:34 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: True
[5/13/2017 1:27:46 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: that is why I have come up with another idea
[5/13/2017 1:28:17 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: no one below apprentice has a TM
[5/13/2017 1:28:25 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: who do they talk to?
[5/13/2017 1:28:32 PM] Bart: Mmm..
[5/13/2017 1:28:35 PM] Proteus: I'm just not sure that most people really know when they're going through an issue that is "spiritual", or what it looks like apart from perhaps having a mental disfunction that they'd go to a doctor for or something.
[5/13/2017 1:28:36 PM] Bart: sip officer?
[5/13/2017 1:28:42 PM] Carlos Mar: Ip team ?
[5/13/2017 1:28:42 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I think we can step in and fill that gap
[5/13/2017 1:28:45 PM] Peter Kis: IP team perhaps
[5/13/2017 1:28:47 PM] Peter Kis: yup
[5/13/2017 1:28:58 PM] Carlos Mar: We can aid
[5/13/2017 1:29:10 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: IP team gets to all of them?
[5/13/2017 1:29:12 PM] Bart: I think it would be wise to do that as part of an IP lesson.
[5/13/2017 1:29:25 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: even those not actively studying?
[5/13/2017 1:29:33 PM] Carlos Mar: The ip team is actually students themselgs ....
[5/13/2017 1:29:38 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: even those who are initiates and are waiting?
[5/13/2017 1:29:38 PM | Edited 1:29:52 PM] Bart: IP lesson: Seek a Cleric you feel comfortable with and have a chat.
[5/13/2017 1:29:51 PM] Carlos Mar: Lateral
[5/13/2017 1:30:13 PM] Peter Kis: People confide in others whom they know and trust - I think that should be a starting point
[5/13/2017 1:30:31 PM] Carlos Mar: There will be...
[5/13/2017 1:30:49 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: I think maybe we could do some out reach
[5/13/2017 1:31:06 PM] Carlos Mar: That's the result of this meeting !
[5/13/2017 1:31:12 PM] Rosalyn Johnson: people may be too afraid/intimidated to do the reaching out
[5/13/2017 1:31:30 PM | Edited 1:32:08 PM] Bart: I am sure that people feel that..
Cyan Sardan et al on Introducing the normality of the Clergy

The Creed and Adjournment