The light of islam (ugh everyone is a critic)

Here's the problem with that. Well, actually, thank you for pointing out that one. I do remember seeing things like this. The issue is that at least 31 Muslims, not including the hijackers, were killed either on the planes or in the buildings on 9/11. Essentially, it seems as if they killed fellow believers in the name of God.

Adder wrote:

Leena wrote: I read the Qur'an right after 9/11 to get an idea of where the hijackers got their information. I still haven't found it. LOL.

I think the "Decleration of Immunity" (immunity from what for doing what!?) has a bit of the stuff which can be intepreted as 'go kill the nonbelievers'. Its not my area but this bit might be one of them;

I dont think I've misrepresented the context? In that same chapter is says "for Allah loveth those who fear him." which is why it all felt a bit Old Testament to me. I'm interested in it though to find out if I can pull anything useful out of it.

And you can't misinterpret this:
Deuteronomy
Chapter 2
32-37
And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us

Deuteronomy
Chapter 3
1-7
1 Then we turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei. 2 And the LORD said unto me, Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. 3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. 4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many. 6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. 7 But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves

Deuteronomy
Chapter 7


1-6
1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; 2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them: 3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. 5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. 6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth

And it goes on and on all speaking of killing (both women and children) and pillaging towns in the name of god this is all in the holy bible.

Here is a site that provides lists and lists of references of murdering in the name of god.
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/terrorism__rape_and_other_cruel_acts_in_the_bible

No religion is perfect and are made by their times for their times.

Yes of course, though that is from the Old Testament which, at least in my intepretation, the NT should be meant to override or update. They are all so old the context they are provided is very out of date these days. Leena mentioned she looked for something and couldnt find it so I was just trying to help.

Adder wrote: Yes of course, though that is from the Old Testament which, at least in my intepretation, the NT should be meant to override or update. They are all so old the context they are provided is very out of date these days. Leena mentioned she looked for something and couldnt find it so I was just trying to help.

I see the nt, and ot one and the same personally because it builds on one another and speaks of the same god anyways in a chronological order. But your right the Old testament god was much more harsh compared to that of the new testament to say the least. He was portrayed as a vengeful deity where as in the new testament he is presented more as a "buddy" of sorts

I have seen because of Christianity, Judiasm, and Islam we have great people in the world

History shows otherwise. the arrival of abarahamic religions always marks the end of civilization. That's true in: America, Europe, middle east, Africa. Asia was recently taken by communism, another form of religion, but adoption, complete rejection and recovery won't take more than a hundred years.

Didn't Jesus say something like "I have not come to change on letter in the Law or the Prophets, but to see them fulfilled". So "overriding" the Old Testament is just Christian justification.

Different times, different stories. Christianity was influenced by Hellenism and Paganism, so no religion stays pure. Most of the things most Christians believe today were introduced by Catholic folklore in its quest to mesh with pagan religions and gain acceptance. The devil and hell weren't even in original Judaism!

Civilizations come and go, but the destroyers have always been men, not religions.

And what are religions made of? The existence of a deity does not make a religion, in the same way the Force didn't wait for Jediism to exist. Christians make christianity, muslims make islam. Considering the importance of religion in the life of the religious, denying its involvement in the negative parts of history and exclusively looking at the positive influences is dishonest at best.

You make a good point Ren.

But rarely does a person burst into jihad or inquisition sporadically. There is usually someone manipulating religious doctrine in their favor, and the ignorant follow through.

Manu wrote: So "overriding" the Old Testament is just Christian justification..

Well I'm not Christian and I havent heard anyone else say it, so I'm not parroting anyones justification - but in my own readings it is the most obvious and meaningul relationship between the two Testaments. The Old Testament needed not be wrong to require overriding, just badly written/transmitted.

ren wrote: Considering the importance of religion in the life of the religious, denying its involvement in the negative parts of history and exclusively looking at the positive influences is dishonest at best.

Only if the person is claiming to represent the religion. Discussing only the positive aspects of a religion is not dishonest IMO (in fact its all I'm interested in) - in the same way as I dont judge a how football team plays based on the behaviour or football skills of its supporters!