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Why should we have "fear of God"?
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But is it just me, or does it not make sense that if a person doesn't accept Christ that they be sentenced to eternal torment? What about all those people in third-world countries who never even hear about the gospel and die without having had a choice? I know, some will say, that is why missionary work is so important. That still does not answer the question. Where do those people go? They neither accepted nor rejected Christ, or perhaps had no religion whatsoever. Does God punish those people for eternity for not accepting Christ? There's a serious plot hole there.
Now, I know all that is beside the point of this thread, so I'll put it back on track. I do have a sense of fear of God, but not in the way that people generally see it. One day I had a conversation with Relan Volkum and he was talking about man-made religions/spiritual concepts and such. I had a revelation at that point as I realized that I had been thinking of God as something that I could fit inside my head. When I thought beyond that, to the idea that God is something so profound and grand that words cannot express his existence, and our thoughts cannot grasp his reality, that is when I felt fear. Not out of risk of disobedience, but of awe. For the first time I understood that God was something that made me little more than a tiny being in something so ginormous that my life could be snuffed out in less than an instant. Who was I in the face of something like that?
As usual, I come to the same conclusion: the truth is always greater than the words we use to describe it.
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Does God punish those people for eternity for not accepting Christ?
Not according to Jesus.
Matthew 25
31 'When the Son of man comes in his glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory.
32 All nations will be assembled before him and he will separate people one from another as the shepherd separates sheep from goats.
33 He will place the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right hand, "Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take as your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you made me welcome,
36 lacking clothes and you clothed me, sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me."
37 Then the upright will say to him in reply, "Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and make you welcome, lacking clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we find you sick or in prison and go to see you?"
40 And the King will answer, "In truth I tell you, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did it to me."
41 Then he will say to those on his left hand, "Go away from me, with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you never gave me food, I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, lacking clothes and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me."
44 Then it will be their turn to ask, "Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty, a stranger or lacking clothes, sick or in prison, and did not come to your help?"
45 Then he will answer, "In truth I tell you, in so far as you neglected to do this to one of the least of these, you neglected to do it to me."
46 And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the upright to eternal life.'
Founder of The Order
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This is in the Abrahamic section, so I'll try to keep everything in that context. The first mention of "the fear of God" is in the Torah, and it's used exactly like most people use it: not really in a fear-ish sense. Beyond that tangential point, God's presence is so great that the one person able to see Him was only allowed to see His back as He passed. If looking at someone, or touching the Ark are instant causes of death, there's a certain physical fear to it.
For Christians that changes a little bit, because Jesus (God's person incarnate) came to Earth and was fully man (yeah some people might disagree, but I'm going off of consensus, scripture, and the variety of creeds out there). He died, and raised others and was raised from the dead. Peter wasn't killed Raiders of the Lost Ark style the first time he saw Jesus.
However, whichever chap wrote Hebrews added what I think is an understated idea: "Faith is being sure of what we hope for, and certain of what we do not see." When getting on an airplane, you're having Thomas-esque faith, based on years of planes flying, science explaining that they work, and being able to physically see the plane. Imagine if flying meant you went to the airport as usual, and then just stepped off the jetway into what looked like nothingness: a little scarier. God however, isn't like an Airplane in that you just get a ticket and go thru some metal scanners to get to heaven. In Daniel, his three companions are about to be killed for not worshiping the king, and they offer this remark "If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it...But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods..." Even if
God isn't an extortionist (some preachers are for sure), but if someone is beyond your understanding or control, it should be just a little scary. Christianity isn't about appeasing God to try and get out of trouble, it's appreciating the holiness of what should be: like a platonic form of goodness that we can't grasp or embody, but we shoot for anyways.
Again, I'm not a saint or theologian.
Knights Secretary's Secretary
Apprentices: Vandrar
TM: Carlos Martinez
"A serious and good philosophical work could be written consisting entirely of jokes" - Wittgenstein
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Kwitshadie wrote: Yeah this is where religion trips me off. If fear is hate, why should we hate the lord? But I have no quelms with treating the lord as a father figure.
How, in your mind, is fear hate? I fear many things, but don't hate them, and I hate many things, but don't fear them. What equates the two in your mind?
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In Episode one Yoda "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering".
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Ah yes, a classic quote, but can fear become hate through anger if they are already the same?Kwitshadie wrote: In Episode one Yoda "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering".
You're already taking your first steps, and that's what matters.Kwitshadie wrote: Alas, I realize I got a lot to learn in the Jedi Order.
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