God of Love, God of Justice

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08 Mar 2015 03:43 #183469 by RyuJin
Replied by RyuJin on topic God of Love, God of Justice
i'm thinking the "little omnipotent's" room :woohoo:

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J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
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08 Mar 2015 10:21 #183489 by Gisteron
OB, just because you think you are God in the flesh doesn't make it so. I have yet to meet a Christian who would say that his interpretation is different or at least conflicts with God's actual meaning. Rather all of them, without exception had their interpretation either revealed to them or approved by God. It is also somewhat telling that you would first tell us that you took your interpretation from your father before you would mention that it is the God-approved one. Why would that be? In any case, while hearing voices isn't exactly a hallmark of health, many people do and there is no shame in it. It is however massively arrogant to assert that not only can you tell without testing an auditory hallucination from a genuine voice but that the former must also be the voice of the creator and master of the universe himself (or herself, considering where the thread went) despite the fact that we know with measurable precision where inside your skull those things are generated.

I agree that most who profess the Christian faith know little to nothing about it and if I accepted the most basic of theological precepts I'd reckon that almost all of their interpretations are dead wrong about the rest of it. Anyway, I don't know whether you have 'the best one', because all of them seem to think so about their own, too and what they universally point to is either an ancient book collection, some half as ancient scholars or their own private conversations with the most supreme of beings. What I do know is a few basic principles of a good number of traditional Christian doctrines and a few things about their basis in the Bible. Now maybe God has changed his mind, which would contradict at least one passage I know from the book, but then he wouldn't be much of a person if he (or she) were bound by a book, would he? All I can say is that the interpretation you offered above was partially in conflict with said book and that is frankly a matter of literary analysis rather than the things The Great And Powerful whispers into your ears.

On to Adder's post.
Neither a father nor a mother, in an ideal case, anyway, would condition their love by the child's submission and surrender to them. Indeed, ideally the opposite should be the case: They would love the child even if that child came to hate them. That is not what either the Bible or the Qur'an say. The positive general vibe (as you put it) in the Bible is that God really loves his people (and only in the later addendum we call the New Testament does he suddenly love all people, at least in some places) if and only if they love him first and submit to either his rules (Old Testament) or both his rules and his incarnation (New Testament) with the rules (all except one) as a condition being debatable with the New Testament.
The positive general vibe (as you put it) in the Qur'an is that Allah will love you if and only if you love him first and submit to him and his Messenger. If you do not believe however, Allah will punish you in this world and the next in the most gruesome of ways and without mercy. Replace him with a female title and you will have not a gentle mother but a monster next to whom Lady Tremaine makes a model loving parent.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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08 Mar 2015 10:43 #183491 by OB1Shinobi
the biggest difference between you and me gisteron is that i do my best to take heart to my delusions and you take your delusions to heart!

god just told me to tell you that she tells us all a different version of the same story
and that its ok if our stories dont all look alike on the surface

People are complicated.

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08 Mar 2015 11:08 #183492 by Gisteron
At least she doesn't tell you not to lie, otherwise this would be mildly awkward, would it not?

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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08 Mar 2015 11:35 #183493 by steamboat28
I literally don't know where this conversation went while I was napping.
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08 Mar 2015 17:29 #183514 by a67
Replied by a67 on topic God of Love, God of Justice
I have some declaration to share with you all. When I finish my study.
Only to say that God is more like the Force. No male and no female.
A lot of abominations wish to be worship like God is by all his Creation in the universe.
Adam knew all that. Lilith was one bitch that don't love her ",only" man.
Ok thats enough for today. I respect ranks and I got to study because I want to be a Jedi Knight.
May the Force enlight our path.

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08 Mar 2015 22:22 - 08 Mar 2015 22:23 #183540 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic God of Love, God of Justice
I also don't think God is a women, but that it's a closer representation for prior stated reasons.

Gisteron wrote: The positive general vibe (as you put it) in the Qur'an is that Allah will love you if and only if you love him first and submit to him and his Messenger. If you do not believe however, Allah will punish you in this world and the next in the most gruesome of ways and without mercy. Replace him with a female title and you will have not a gentle mother but a monster next to whom Lady Tremaine makes a model loving parent.


I was getting at that some elements become evidently out of place with the positive vibe, not that the positive elements are negative elements!? I tend to think its nigh impossible the document is unchanged over time, and unlikely its divine inspiration as described, so instead look for what best can represent truth, and discard irrelevancy through a process of careful experiential based analysis
:silly:

Speaking of vibes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJuXIq7OazQ

:lol:

If a God has a role in justice then I think we'd see something of it's action, and if it's out of sight then it seems a stretch to ask people to have faith in a system which has been communicated to them be fellow humans. I tend to go as far as some energetic concept like karma which is based around balance and equivalency in a complex sea of relationships, but this is the Abrahamic section - so I'll stick with vibes.

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Last edit: 08 Mar 2015 22:23 by Adder.
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09 Mar 2015 02:51 #183581 by a67
Replied by a67 on topic God of Love, God of Justice
:laugh:
The vibe... Thats a good one. I am just based on what story teach us along this thousands years.
Something we should all read it's the "Emerald Tablet of Thot". Just beware of that fruit there a missings tablet.
(and probably personal interpretation) B)

Also this it's a good story for kids. Anyway we are all kids of someone.
(how adult speak of reality to kid?) ;)


Hidden Human History Movie - Hypothesis for Consiā€¦ : http://youtu.be/uAm-kbzT7xw

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09 Mar 2015 15:48 - 09 Mar 2015 16:25 #183660 by Gisteron
One could take the positive vibe or the general vibe. One could cherry pick the book for the occasional good thing and discard 80%+ of it as 'out of place'.

I tend to not do that. Even if the book was generally positive with a few wicked passages, there would not be an excuse for those, but instead it is generally rife with evil, short of the passages that are outside of discussion of morality, like statements of fact most of which are falsehoods, with only a few bits of seemingly decent phrases desperately shining through their occasional muffled glint, so there is not really much of a case for a both general and positive vibe, if we went just by the text.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
Last edit: 09 Mar 2015 16:25 by Gisteron.

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09 Mar 2015 21:04 #183721 by OB1Shinobi
i really like the bible

i consider it a wisdom texts as much as anything else

and light said let there be god

BANG!
something smaller than a moleculetoenail expanded into a universe in the time it takes to look up into the skay and recognize a constellation

and the garden, the idea of human in perfection but also a sort of simple ignorance

the idea that it was knowledge - especially The Knowledge of Good and Evil (or maybe positive and negative - right and wrong - maybe just the knowledge of duality itself? i dont say "i know you should belive this belive that" i say "this is great this is insigtful even if the insight is mine or yours)

and the serpent - a symbol of wisdom - asociated with satan whose name means the adversary - rooted in the word adversity - and opposer or opposition and accuser - associated with the fallen who is accused of battle with heaven and whose name is lucifer bringer/bearer of LIGHT
and jesus who IS the light
"god is light" is a quote from the NT

fiber optics?
light as information?
what if information is all there is?
in the begining was the word
let there be knowledge


what about the ralationships of jacob and esau and cain and abel?

recurring themes of hunter - gatherer culture being displaced by agri culture? thats a popular interpretation

the book ishmael by daniel quinn was pretty cool -its got a telepathic monkey and who doesnt love THOSE?

david had the first known special forces units made from men who could hit a strand of hair with a stone slung from either hand

jona wasnt swallowed by a whale he was running from his lifes responsibities
which really means his natural talents as a person
which we all have
and i understand this because i did it myself and a whale swallowed me too because of it

ecclasiasies why is wise man better than the fool - for there is no more rememberence of the wise than of the fool forever and ever and in the end how does the wise man die? just like the fool! vanity of vanities - all is vanity and chasing after the wind

someone once told me that in traditional hebrew culture of the general time of jesus the body was considered to have a "clean" side and a "dirty" side (which is a recurrinv theme in human thought although in other traditions such as nagualism its much more profound and empowering)

in this context "turn the other cheek" is explained as being "to hit me again you will have to dirty yourself" which is a powerful form of civil disobedience and standing on human dignity

i dont know if that is the "correct" interpretation in the eyes of people who think there IS a "correct" interpretation - or more to the point of those who think there is an INCORRECT interpretation

but its a GOOD interpretation and i LIKE it

and sarach gave tons of great insight about life and society

how many bible heroes were Power Dreamers?
from the very begining it was Power Dreamers who god revealed wisdom to and seleced for greatness so if you really want to serve god get serious about your dream life ?

i could go on and on

the bible is cool

People are complicated.

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