Digital Temple

Someone here at TOTJO brought up the topic of "if not a physical temple, why not a digital one?". The idea kind of got buried in the forum, but I stumbled upon it today and thought it was a great idea. I had an idea of my own on that matter, and these are the posts with which I replied:

This might not be everyone's cup of tea, but this Second Life thing reminded me of Myst Online. That game has been around for over a decade and is similar in function. You create an avatar, and continue on to the underground world of D'ni. There are some puzzles involved, which IMO just makes it more worth your time

You can find it here, but undoubtedly there will be questions, so PM me if you're curious
DOWNLOAD



General Steps to the JEDI Hood:

1) Download Myst Online
2) Run game.
3) Ciick "Need an account?". Enter email address.
4) Once signed up, Log In.
5) After updates are installed, create avatar.
6) Once you Link in, go click on the Hand symbol of the post, then click on the Book inside.
7) Follow Cleft Walkthrough
Once back in Relto (the island in the sky), face the posts with the hut to your back. Click on the post Hand to the far left.
9) You'll find yourself in a stone chamber. Find the exit, turn right, turn right again, turn left.
10) Click on the blue, glowing circle. This will give you your "Ki".
11) Look to your left. There is a Book on a pedastal. Click on the image in the book.
12) You are now in the Nexus. Click the circle symbol on the left of the machine.
13) Click Public Links. Scroll through until you see JEDI's Hood.
14) Welcome to the neighborhood!

PS Let me know if/when you get there, and I'll try and meet you.

PPS I realize this is a lot of steps, and it may get confusing at times (actually, I guarantee it), but if you are a seeker like me, you'll have the patience to get there. I humbly await your arrival.

PPPS Here's a pic:

Please could you explain what benefit a modelled Temple has over the one we're currently in? I don't really get it.. :dry:

tzb wrote: Please could you explain what benefit a modelled Temple has over the one we're currently in? I don't really get it.. :dry:

What benefit does a forum have over an email based newsletter group, or a monthly physical gathering. Any attempt at a digital temple would in my mind simply just serve as another medium to the same goal. Some more simplified and easier to access/use then others. They all serve the same purpose of which is community and communications, all of which comes in many styles and formats.

Do I think a digital model based temple existed should everyone be required to use it or be at it, I would answer no. Just like members are not forced to go to the physical gatherings I would see it as simply another medium. As long as that medium was managed appropriately and that rules were still followed etc.

In the reality of it, do I think people should pick up the game and so on. Probably not....yet... With the dramatic improvements to VR and the next 3-4 years of which VR and things become far more available I could see more virtual environments coming a reality and everyday practice in the future. But for right now the cost of which, the technical requirements to even be in those environments being a prohibitive factor for a lot of people I don't see it as something that would come out in the next couple years. HOWEVER, I do see it being something that will happen eventually. It's just a matter of time, but I don't see the forums themselves ever going away from being the main medium of the temple anytime soon.

All are free to go wherever they would like to gather for whatever reason that the medium can serve. Using a game can be fun and engaging and can also serve the imagination.

However, if you were to ask me personally if it was for me, I would say no. The reason is, I don't believe in adding layers of hyper-reality on top of something that is meant to teach one to accept, thrive, and serve in the one we already have to deal with now. It can become easy to synonymize and eventually even mistake one's involvement in the path with one's involvement in the medium that they use to help learn about it.

The forum here has a very minimal layer of what I'm talking about, and serves as a lean form of essential communication and information archiving while also staying out of the way of the reality we are learning about.

Embrace your hyper-reality :lol:
Else slip into sub-reality :blink:

Tellahane wrote:

tzb wrote: Please could you explain what benefit a modelled Temple has over the one we're currently in? I don't really get it.. :dry:

What benefit does a forum have over an email based newsletter group, or a monthly physical gathering.

• Browsable by non members
• Threaded conversations encouraging all to participate
• Automatically archived and searchable by all
• Doesn't require specific location and available 24/7, unlike physical gathering
• Doesn't require specialist software, unlike a 3D temple

and the big one

• We already have it, and it's serving us fine

I'm not against the idea of a 3D modelled Temple but to me it seems like a needless addition, a kind of gimmick which gets in the way of the pure communication a forum provides. If we're about helping people see through the illusion and find the inner truth, why add a layer of illusion - a 3D representation of something which doesn't exist?

To look at it another way, if I wanted a recipe for chicken pie, I'd get it in text form. I could get it as a 3D model, but that seems unnecessary, a kind of additional barrier to communicating the inner message of the recipe. The text form serves the purpose just fine - why waste time on the 3D model?

So yes, I was wondering what the benefits are, as I don't personally have experience of this sort of thing so don't see them - if there are benefits, it would be great to hear about them so far no-one's really offered a reason for it.

The real question to ask here (and everybody has been mentioning it indirectly) is: What value does a 3D online temple have that we do not currently have here? And, does that value outweigh the opportunity cost it would take to make such an endeavor happen?

Just by asking those two questions, I know that my personal answer would be: It only adds a superficial value appealing to our "sense" of imagination and fascination with a fictional representation of reality. So, if we built one, it would be to sate our desire to walk around a real Jedi temple... But, how much meaning does that have? To me, it doesn't add. I kind of have a sacral urge to do it... We all probably do. We have the desire to be Jedi walking around the temple, talking to people, visiting the vast library with all its volumes of blue light. We all want to visit the council chambers and speak with Yoda.

And, when VR comes out, I think we should do it for fun. haha.

But, I think that this dream is a superficial one. It doesn't address the core of what being a Jedi is. It's "entertainment". Hanging out. If Maynoth was around, he'd be rolling on the ground laughing his butt off about how right he was. First, we are human. So, this is natural to want. Second, though, we are Jedi, and we have to look at it from a logical and spiritual perspective.

It would take a lot of time to build. It would take a lot of energy to build. And, for what? Our own enjoyment? Why not focus on what we have here? Why not develop the underdeveloped Lesson Bank in the Degree Scheme? Why not focus on getting more training masters ready to take on apprentices? Why not focus on curating an ever more amazing library? Why not focus on greeting members and participating in discussions that will actually change lives? And, on top of that, why not focus on making a difference in our respective communities outside of the forum. I volunteer with three non-profits and I'm on the board of one of them. So, my time here is often limited. But, I'm out in the world BEING a Jedi. I come back into the forum and I see that people are talking about building a fun 3D temple to play in? I sit here and sigh a little bit. I get it... I really do. I see the appeal. And, I don't want to make it seem like I'm making fun of the project or reducing its significance... but, I do feel like life is short. haha. I watch my share of anime, so I know how entertainment is important. I just feel like it's going to be difficult to justify this kind of approach.

I wouldn't respond, but I feel this is a symptom of a larger issue. Jedi could always focus more on actual service. When, a lot of the time, we focus on making our websites or getting the latest artwork up or proving how awesome we are in debates with Khaos/David/etc. And, I've been there too. I've padded my Degree Journal with mindless analysis that didn't even really mean anything...

Sorry if I've rambled. Just some thoughts that went through my head as I read this.

Don't we currently have this Temple?

Connor L. wrote: The real question to ask here (and everybody has been mentioning it indirectly) is: What value does a 3D online temple have that we do not currently have here? And, does that value outweigh the opportunity cost it would take to make such an endeavor happen?

Just by asking those two questions, I know that my personal answer would be: It only adds a superficial value appealing to our "sense" of imagination and fascination with a fictional representation of reality. So, if we built one, it would be to sate our desire to walk around a real Jedi temple... But, how much meaning does that have? To me, it doesn't add. I kind of have a sacral urge to do it... We all probably do. We have the desire to be Jedi walking around the temple, talking to people, visiting the vast library with all its volumes of blue light. We all want to visit the council chambers and speak with Yoda.

And, when VR comes out, I think we should do it for fun. haha.

But, I think that this dream is a superficial one. It doesn't address the core of what being a Jedi is. It's "entertainment". Hanging out. If Maynoth was around, he'd be rolling on the ground laughing his butt off about how right he was. First, we are human. So, this is natural to want. Second, though, we are Jedi, and we have to look at it from a logical and spiritual perspective.

It would take a lot of time to build. It would take a lot of energy to build. And, for what? Our own enjoyment? Why not focus on what we have here? Why not develop the underdeveloped Lesson Bank in the Degree Scheme? Why not focus on getting more training masters ready to take on apprentices? Why not focus on curating an ever more amazing library? Why not focus on greeting members and participating in discussions that will actually change lives? And, on top of that, why not focus on making a difference in our respective communities outside of the forum. I volunteer with three non-profits and I'm on the board of one of them. So, my time here is often limited. But, I'm out in the world BEING a Jedi. I come back into the forum and I see that people are talking about building a fun 3D temple to play in? I sit here and sigh a little bit. I get it... I really do. I see the appeal. And, I don't want to make it seem like I'm making fun of the project or reducing its significance... but, I do feel like life is short. haha. I watch my share of anime, so I know how entertainment is important. I just feel like it's going to be difficult to justify this kind of approach.

I wouldn't respond, but I feel this is a symptom of a larger issue. Jedi could always focus more on actual service. When, a lot of the time, we focus on making our websites or getting the latest artwork up or proving how awesome we are in debates with Khaos/David/etc. And, I've been there too. I've padded my Degree Journal with mindless analysis that didn't even really mean anything...

Sorry if I've rambled. Just some thoughts that went through my head as I read this.

There is a video I've wanted to do on this exact subject, actually not so much on the whole why do a 3d model temple so much as a why should we explore a new idea when we have an idea that works subject.

So I'm in a unique point of view here, I was installing windows via floppy disks with my parents when I was like 5, I was doing command line entry stuff on the computer at the age of 6, I also got to help test one of the first cell phones to ever come out when there was only 1 tower in the entire city and it was a test one set up by the local university, I had early access to some cool stuff. I also knew some groups of people around that time that didn't like the concept of text messaging when that first came out. Online forums were just starting to appear. There were people I knew who thought sending text messages and doing online forums for certain organizations was unnecessary and took away from the experience of actually hearing someones voice and talking to them in person. There was no way to know if someone was angry or upset or happy, no way to really convey certain messages, the fear that it would distance people away from each other. It was completely unnecessary.

Yet the younger generation was all for it, now that generation is the one on all these forums, and reddit, and texting, look at all the txting while driving, selfies and other crazyness that is happening now with that generation.

Look where we are today.

So VR is coming around, games are becoming easier to make and put together, online digital environments can be created in weeks and even days instead of years. New idea's, new possibilities, ....new fears.... At some point I do see an online digital temple where we can see each other an be in the same area and communicate together becoming at thing at some point. Look at the chat room that people show up in on totjo already, usually its a specific crowd that goes there not everyone tends to, that crowd would be the same type of crowd I would expect to show up to a digital area.

So what benefit does that have. Look at the benefit of jedi gatherings. Jedi gatherings are not necessary to your growth as a jedi, they are not required to your growth, yet they do help. (granted I've not been to one yet I'm basing this on interviews and comments made by those who have). Jedi gatherings and meeting other jedi in person and some of the classes and things that go on there, its just a whole different experience, and a beneficial one at that I don't think anyone would argue otherwise.

A VR environment would be limited, you could do sermons and classes there to a degree, but not physically being there you can't really take full benefits from a lot of the classes you could do as if you were there physically. But there are still somethings you could do there, knight ceremonies where more people who wish they could attend could attend(yes I've seen them done in chat before this is no different just more visually appealing). A AR(Augmented Reality) is also going to be coming a thing to. Take a look at the starwars saga in the jedi council room when they needed to meet they had the holograms in the chairs as needed, we're not far from doing that same thing with augmented reality as well. It's just a way to personally put yourself somewhere that you can't physically go to. Another tool would be those who wish they could attend and be parts of groups but are physically unable to financially, or even because of health issues.

There are some advantages and the kids generation that is being born today, is going to be using this new VR/AR stuff as naturally as we breathe air today when they are our age, to them it may be the standard, to us it may be a waste of time when we already have something that has proven its working. Just as the even older generation thinks texting and online forums is a waste of time when you could be talking to someone in person or over the phone. We may not see that now but they still see it that way, or a number of them do.

The subject that I have struggled with even in jediism between talking with people who have been in jediism for 20 years now vs some of us newcomers and how the newer ideas are looked so far down on by those who have been around and like what has worked with them for the last 20 years, at some point the ideas of younger generations will evolve it whether you want them to or not, just as we can't stop the technologies evolve overtime either. At some point digital temples will be made(they already have been once to my knowledge), at some point people of the younger generations will start using them because they are a different experience and maybe an experience they are used to from what they have grown up with.

In the end its still all just comes down to different forms and ways to communicate and convey and experience the same thing. So why are so many people afraid of it?

Hopefully that made some sense, its been hard for me to try and quantify the issue and describe it, which is why I haven't really brought it up fully yet.

Vision seems to be the primary sensory environmental input, its just used a lot by our brain and processes a lot of information. There are of course several others, but it would appear to be the most massive and feed the most information into normal waking perception. Plus of course people tend to dream in pictures primarily, which is a construct of those associated regions.

Vision is integral to perception and mental imagery seems integral to awareness, we exert a spatial identity to things to create a model of our environment in our brains, we do it with vision, sound, pain and touch.

Check the Art of Memory , its also a lesson in the TOTJO Degree Scheme. Aristotle and many others used spatial models visualized in their minds to increase their power of memory. Athletes use visualization as training to increase their physical performances.

Computational devices with screens are things are tools not just to practice mundane hand to mouth reward associations (ie games) but to exercise spatial complexity (ie simulations). It's the ideal way to exercise the brain, because your using almost the same operating language that brain already uses. It's been a huge part of my intellectual and spiritual path for over 2 decades and it has afforded me more gains then any other element of philosophy or spirituality.

It's one of the reasons I like Tibetan Buddhism, as visualization is integral to the higher practises - not as some ritual of benediction, but seemingly as a practical way to increase the experiential involvement in the practise.

We often forget that our perception is not reality, its a mental model of reality. You and your environment are a simulation produced by the subconscious to serve as an agency within the complexity we find ourselves. Unless that is being contended, which is another interesting topic to consider!!?

I'm suggesting that by making a complex virtual reality your able to exercise increased or altered natures of complexity into that reality to extend ones own mental capacities. It cannot compete with reality, because only reality can have the full sensory experience, so if someone is getting lost in an artificial reality its more a problem with their focus then the artificial reality. Abandoning technology because its not real seems a fundamentalist position as a rule, but an important option for those who need a break - all things in balance, but the focus on self improvement in my Jedi path means its one of the most valuable tools available to me which increases my capacity to relate to 'real' reality.

So if we extend the concept, and in the future someone can plug into our nervous system to replicate our entire sensory inputs but add additionally data - this level of augmented reality would actually be more real then normal perception!! Unless of course we're talking about metaphysical stuff which is outside of science.... which I'd imagine if we got to this point in understanding the brain we probably would have been able for science to have reached that too, making it probably moot as a counter-point as it would just be another type of mediated relationship.