- Posts: 1376
Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed
06 Aug 2019 14:40 #340963
by ZealotX
No, no, I thank YOU.
People on all sides of the issue are frustrated. A lot of the people who don't back up charges of racist, as you said, are frustrated that they even have to and tired of doing so when such attempts are met with so much resistance. Instead of accepting new information a lot of people feel the need to argue it to death in order to protect the current worldview in their brain.
To be honest... I don't think it's necessarily their fault.
Here's what I believe. I believe we don't talk enough about neural networking and neural plasticity. People get defensive. There is a perception of slight that we have to get past in order to have certain rational debates. Why? Because there is EITHER (meaning not necessarily) a degree of ignorance involved, a degree of immorality involved, or a mire of grey area where the person isn't racist by any conscious decision but rather it is their brains that have been developed, partially influenced by racists and racism.
See Blue eyes, brown eyes experiment.
I think it is critical to deal with these issues in a way that allows us to move beyond fault and address the "SCIENCE" of racism which isn't necessarily racism but some deeper foundation that causes humans to divide and, in some cases, conquer. This "you're that" may simply be a reaction to a perceived difference in which the mind tries to explain why the difference isn't a positive advantage for the other person.... because that would make the person feel inferior, even subconsciously. And so I think the mind has the natural tendency to overcompensate when it feels threatened by ideas it doesn't want to accept. And I also 'believe' that the brain feels threatened, not necessary at something based on morality but rather based on how many neural connections it has to that idea. The more it accepts 2+2=4 the more it will respond, and possibly even with hostility, to someone saying 2+2=5.
Well in terms of race, you have black people seemingly dominating sports and we can talk about why that is and burst energy vs whatever else, blah blah blah, but it doesn't mean black athletes are in any way superior. And it doesn't mean these physical differences are based on race or color. If there are physical advantages they are the result of breeding. Africans were literally bred like animals to be stronger so they could work under hellish conditions. This is why African Americans are less likely built the same as regular Africans. But even a non-racist might speculate about what the same situation would do to the capacity for intelligence. The difference is a racist will go that next step and assume black people in general are stupid (which is ignorant) instead of the same intellectual argument which would deal with the potential of being equivalent to a 1 in a million athlete. ALL black people are not athletic gods. Therefore, I would say it is fair to say that a 1 in a million intellectual would be more likely to be Asian, Indian, or Jewish. Sorry, non-Jewish white people, but you spent a lot of time fighting each other and being soldiers. You also have to look at time spent with more access to either higher learning or technology which will accelerate how the brain is able to handle more of these types of data. You also have to consider the impact and effect of religion. And yes, this is kind of a taboo subject but if we talk about it together in a respectful manner we may be able to dispel popular myths in both communities through open and honest dialogue.
But again... my whole point right NOW is not saying "oh you're racist!" No, I actually think racism on a personal/private level tends to be more of a scale and less of a binary thing. It becomes binary when one fully agrees with or aligns their neural processing to racial stereotypes, believing as if religiously, that these stereotypes are and must be true. If you say, oh that stereotype may have a grain of truth regarding x% of that race's population (which may have nothing to do with their color but rather their socialization or experience interacting with each other as well as outsiders) I can accept that. However, if you think its true ONLY because of their color and negate their history and experience, then you're more likely already over the line between racist and not racist.
Most people are not not racist simply due to level/amount of exposure. You need exposure to black people to counter the exposure to racist white people and their ideas and influence. Because once your brain hears an idea it is forced to process it whether you are aware or not. So you form opinions whether you are aware or not and sometimes those opinions can only be drawn out of you in a conversation about race which isn't a common conversation. The good news is that this positive exposure is spreading. This is why larger more integrated cities tend to be the most progressive while rural communities are more conservative and have many pockets where racism thrives (especially in the South) because the virus, in isolation, is simply able to hide from the cure.
What is the cure? If you have ever felt uncomfortable in one of these conversations, guess what? You're being cured. If you have no discomfort, and this is spoken in general and is rhetorical, then you either have nothing to cure or you're at a further stage that may be incurable due to the level of difficulty in breaking that isolation and the neural networking's defenses.
What I think a lot of black people don't understand is that a lot of whites are not choosing to have attitudes and ideas that are so influenced by racists. Their brains simply assimilated nearby information. The more that certain things were said the more the brain had to process those things and the more beliefs, pro or con, were formed. And so if you say this or that person is a racist when they don't understand where they're at themselves, you really risk losing that person because they reject the label, identifying them as something they agree is bad. That agreement, often unnoticed, is a positive start. That's something we can work with.
Agreeing its bad doesn't make you "the least racist person in the world". And who knows if you're saying that because you know many other people think its bad rather than what you think? But I think many whites aren't consciously racist and really don't like being compared to those who are. And honestly, if the behavior is similar from both groups its hard for black people to tell the difference so they/we distance ourselves more so out of safety. And when we address racism everyone thinks we're talking about all whites. I'll admit, that this is a hard thing to understand if you're not used to the conversation.
But essentially, 99% of arguments against "White people" from African Americans are not talking about all white people but rather sort of collective representation of white supremacy and those who promote it, aid it, etc. This fundamental misunderstanding causes a lot of whites to get offended and think we're talking about them when they're confused because they haven't personally done anything and don't see how they could be thought of as racist. But because they then "get in the way" of the argument against ACTUAL racists and ACTUAL racism they usually end up saying things that THEN (not before) make them sound racially suspect like... "I have a black friend" , "I don't see color", etc.
Don't, for the love of all things holy, don't do that. I get it. I know you're not trying to sound racist. You're just defending yourself the best way you know how. But don't do that. All you have to say is, "I appreciate all cultures and the differences we have and don't see one culture as superior to another". In your mind that means the same thing as "I don't see color" but context matters. There are 2 sides to the issue so the PERCEPTION is that if you aren't on the side of black people arguing against racism then you are FOR racism. That's not your intent. I'm just letting you know how it is being perceived because I love you and I see this is a common problem.
Racism has gone on for so long that most black people are not going to have the conversation in the way that makes you feel most comfortable. Why should they? You're not the one most likely to get shot. The police are on your side. White nationalists and white terrorists are on your side. People who used to hang us are on your side. The criminal justice system is on your side. Our protest is ours and if we're already uncomfortable due to all these things and more then you can be a little uncomfortable too. But don't let whatever discomfort you may have from keeping you out of the conversation because (if possible) that's how we're going to defeat racism.
Replied by ZealotX on topic Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed
Deimos wrote: @ZealotX
Oh no I don't find it condescending, rather I found it rather enlightening. No one even said there was a definition by Dr Frances, so I actually thank for bringing it up. I wish more people were willing to explain their views rather than just state them in a tone "this is right because I say so" kind of way.
From my experience part of the disconnect stems from the vapid usage of bigot, racist, sexist, etc. They've been used so much they've lost all the weight they had, at least in my opinion anyway. That's the part I take issue with primarily, hence why people who call people racist without backing it up irritate me so. Because I personally can't understand it, so my brain keeps circulating it in my brain until I do understand, or at least somewhat. So I genuinely thank you man
No, no, I thank YOU.
People on all sides of the issue are frustrated. A lot of the people who don't back up charges of racist, as you said, are frustrated that they even have to and tired of doing so when such attempts are met with so much resistance. Instead of accepting new information a lot of people feel the need to argue it to death in order to protect the current worldview in their brain.
To be honest... I don't think it's necessarily their fault.
Here's what I believe. I believe we don't talk enough about neural networking and neural plasticity. People get defensive. There is a perception of slight that we have to get past in order to have certain rational debates. Why? Because there is EITHER (meaning not necessarily) a degree of ignorance involved, a degree of immorality involved, or a mire of grey area where the person isn't racist by any conscious decision but rather it is their brains that have been developed, partially influenced by racists and racism.
See Blue eyes, brown eyes experiment.
I think it is critical to deal with these issues in a way that allows us to move beyond fault and address the "SCIENCE" of racism which isn't necessarily racism but some deeper foundation that causes humans to divide and, in some cases, conquer. This "you're that" may simply be a reaction to a perceived difference in which the mind tries to explain why the difference isn't a positive advantage for the other person.... because that would make the person feel inferior, even subconsciously. And so I think the mind has the natural tendency to overcompensate when it feels threatened by ideas it doesn't want to accept. And I also 'believe' that the brain feels threatened, not necessary at something based on morality but rather based on how many neural connections it has to that idea. The more it accepts 2+2=4 the more it will respond, and possibly even with hostility, to someone saying 2+2=5.
Well in terms of race, you have black people seemingly dominating sports and we can talk about why that is and burst energy vs whatever else, blah blah blah, but it doesn't mean black athletes are in any way superior. And it doesn't mean these physical differences are based on race or color. If there are physical advantages they are the result of breeding. Africans were literally bred like animals to be stronger so they could work under hellish conditions. This is why African Americans are less likely built the same as regular Africans. But even a non-racist might speculate about what the same situation would do to the capacity for intelligence. The difference is a racist will go that next step and assume black people in general are stupid (which is ignorant) instead of the same intellectual argument which would deal with the potential of being equivalent to a 1 in a million athlete. ALL black people are not athletic gods. Therefore, I would say it is fair to say that a 1 in a million intellectual would be more likely to be Asian, Indian, or Jewish. Sorry, non-Jewish white people, but you spent a lot of time fighting each other and being soldiers. You also have to look at time spent with more access to either higher learning or technology which will accelerate how the brain is able to handle more of these types of data. You also have to consider the impact and effect of religion. And yes, this is kind of a taboo subject but if we talk about it together in a respectful manner we may be able to dispel popular myths in both communities through open and honest dialogue.
But again... my whole point right NOW is not saying "oh you're racist!" No, I actually think racism on a personal/private level tends to be more of a scale and less of a binary thing. It becomes binary when one fully agrees with or aligns their neural processing to racial stereotypes, believing as if religiously, that these stereotypes are and must be true. If you say, oh that stereotype may have a grain of truth regarding x% of that race's population (which may have nothing to do with their color but rather their socialization or experience interacting with each other as well as outsiders) I can accept that. However, if you think its true ONLY because of their color and negate their history and experience, then you're more likely already over the line between racist and not racist.
Most people are not not racist simply due to level/amount of exposure. You need exposure to black people to counter the exposure to racist white people and their ideas and influence. Because once your brain hears an idea it is forced to process it whether you are aware or not. So you form opinions whether you are aware or not and sometimes those opinions can only be drawn out of you in a conversation about race which isn't a common conversation. The good news is that this positive exposure is spreading. This is why larger more integrated cities tend to be the most progressive while rural communities are more conservative and have many pockets where racism thrives (especially in the South) because the virus, in isolation, is simply able to hide from the cure.
What is the cure? If you have ever felt uncomfortable in one of these conversations, guess what? You're being cured. If you have no discomfort, and this is spoken in general and is rhetorical, then you either have nothing to cure or you're at a further stage that may be incurable due to the level of difficulty in breaking that isolation and the neural networking's defenses.
What I think a lot of black people don't understand is that a lot of whites are not choosing to have attitudes and ideas that are so influenced by racists. Their brains simply assimilated nearby information. The more that certain things were said the more the brain had to process those things and the more beliefs, pro or con, were formed. And so if you say this or that person is a racist when they don't understand where they're at themselves, you really risk losing that person because they reject the label, identifying them as something they agree is bad. That agreement, often unnoticed, is a positive start. That's something we can work with.
Agreeing its bad doesn't make you "the least racist person in the world". And who knows if you're saying that because you know many other people think its bad rather than what you think? But I think many whites aren't consciously racist and really don't like being compared to those who are. And honestly, if the behavior is similar from both groups its hard for black people to tell the difference so they/we distance ourselves more so out of safety. And when we address racism everyone thinks we're talking about all whites. I'll admit, that this is a hard thing to understand if you're not used to the conversation.
But essentially, 99% of arguments against "White people" from African Americans are not talking about all white people but rather sort of collective representation of white supremacy and those who promote it, aid it, etc. This fundamental misunderstanding causes a lot of whites to get offended and think we're talking about them when they're confused because they haven't personally done anything and don't see how they could be thought of as racist. But because they then "get in the way" of the argument against ACTUAL racists and ACTUAL racism they usually end up saying things that THEN (not before) make them sound racially suspect like... "I have a black friend" , "I don't see color", etc.
Don't, for the love of all things holy, don't do that. I get it. I know you're not trying to sound racist. You're just defending yourself the best way you know how. But don't do that. All you have to say is, "I appreciate all cultures and the differences we have and don't see one culture as superior to another". In your mind that means the same thing as "I don't see color" but context matters. There are 2 sides to the issue so the PERCEPTION is that if you aren't on the side of black people arguing against racism then you are FOR racism. That's not your intent. I'm just letting you know how it is being perceived because I love you and I see this is a common problem.
Racism has gone on for so long that most black people are not going to have the conversation in the way that makes you feel most comfortable. Why should they? You're not the one most likely to get shot. The police are on your side. White nationalists and white terrorists are on your side. People who used to hang us are on your side. The criminal justice system is on your side. Our protest is ours and if we're already uncomfortable due to all these things and more then you can be a little uncomfortable too. But don't let whatever discomfort you may have from keeping you out of the conversation because (if possible) that's how we're going to defeat racism.
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